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Chapel's crush on Spock

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Kilana2

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It's been a long time since I've watched TOS episodes. One thing stuck until today: nurse Chapel's crush on Mr. Spock - never to be reciprocated.

Did Christine finally come to terms with this situation? How long did she yearn? Spock obviously never consideren a human partner, at least not Chapel.

On the other hand: I can see how women are going for Spock.
 
I would assume that she came to terms with it some time between TOS and TMP.

The Spock/Chapel scenes are my least favorite whenever I rewatch TOS today, mainly because it never develops beyond what see in their first scene together: Chapel loves Spock, he doesn't reciprocate. Lather, rinse, repeat. Most of the Spock/Chapel scenes are a waste of time.
 
I guess I kind of wonder how her interest in Spock fits in with her relationship with Roger Korby. Dr. Korby was evidently the reason she enlisted; the hope to bump into him along the way somehow. Then they make it to his last known location and think he's there for a bit and then (SPOILER ALERT!) find out that he's really been dead for a while, and replaced himself with a robot. I wonder if Spock was just her persistent rebound. Maybe she (perhaps subconsciously) chose him on purpose because she knew it wouldn't really work out. However, "The Naked Time," for example, predates, "What Are Little Girls Made of?" (by stardate) so perhaps she had pretty much given up on dear-old Roger already.
Who's to say?

--Alex
 
I never understood that subplot between Spock and Chapel, I'm sorry I just didn't see it. After Spock, getting a shot at Leila Kalomi; that chemistry between them... was so powerful and lovely, and a little sad. I can't see him with anyone else. The music as well hit the right touches. "This Side of Paradise" was a nice, and sweet episode which is one of my favorite episodes.
 
It was a huge loss of status for Majel. She went from playing a serious officer in charge when Pike is gone, to a sad "old maid" character whose main feature is a crush on someone who wants nothing to do with her.

Add to that, her backstory that came along in "What are Little Girls Made Of?" renders the girlish Spock crush less plausible.

It was a symptom of two things: Nurse Chapel being shoehorned into the show because the producer's mistress wanted a job, and the broader problem of Star Trek having writers who were not good at writing female characters.

Or maybe they weren't allowed to be good at it. After NBC didn't like Majel in the role of Number One, apparently Gene lied to spare her feelings, telling her that the network wouldn't allow a woman in an authority role. Then he had to tell a lot of other people that story because Majel interacts with them. Then the fable took on a flattering aspect: Gene the feminist hero versus NBC the chauvinist wet blanket.

And in any case, in order to maintain the story that spared Majel's feelings, from then on Star Trek had to keep all Starfleet women in humble positions. Barbara Stanwyck was the honcho and very popular on an Old West show, The Big Valley. But in the sci-fi future, girls will be aboard to take notes and fetch coffee.

When you think about it, the whole Majel subterfuge was a wrong turn that hurt Star Trek a lot. Gene should have just been honest with his girlfriend for the good of the show.
 
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It's been a long time since I've watched TOS episodes. One thing stuck until today: nurse Chapel's crush on Mr. Spock - never to be reciprocated.

Did Christine finally come to terms with this situation? How long did she yearn? Spock obviously never consideren a human partner, at least not Chapel.

Her unrequited love continued as minor a sub-plot in TAS ("Mudd's Passion"), but vanished by the time they reunited in TMP. One could offer the theory that Chapel's post TOS/TAS focus on her career provided the distance needed to finally see that Spock was never going to be a possibility.
 
"The Naked Time" supposedly showed hidden or veiled aspects of these characters and we're to accept them at face value. But given the virus was acting like intoxication the characters' behaviours can be questioned to some degree.

When sufficiently intoxicated some thoughts and feelings can feel much stronger than they might actually be. We could be prone to saying certain random things because we're not feeling inhibited. Essentially we're not really revealing our truer selves, but merely one aspect of our greater selves. We simply aren't behaving whole.

We also know the word "love" can have many nuances. Chapel said, "I love you, Mr. Spock." while effectively intoxicated, but it might not really have meant this great and deep heartfelt love. She could have found Spock attractive on certain levels that she expressed as love in her intoxicated state. Later when sober she might have realized her feelings might be stronger than she initially thought or she now entertained the possibility now that the Roger Corby issue was resolved.

Over time Chapel looks to have resolved whatever her feelings might be because she knew they would not be reciprocated. Thus her "love" became some sort of detached affection.
 
Was there ever a chemistry with the 2 actors, did anyone see any signs Spock had a pinch of feelings for her? I've seen Spock had feelings for other women; not to mention those women were very beautiful and there were this hint of shine to his love interests. There were never any cues for me to see a sign of an attraction for Chapel.

As for female characters Chapel was not as compelling as Uhura or Rand; who the actors tended to share their personally identities to characters they played. I didn't see that with Majel's character. She made a huge improvement as Troi's Mommy.
 
Have you seen TNG's In Theory?

I think the outcome would be pretty much the same.

;)

Ah, I had to look up the German titel for this episode, it translates as Data's first love (Datas erste Liebe), according Memory Alpha. I dimly remember it.....:)
 
Ah, I had to look up the German titel for this episode, it translates as Data's first love (Datas erste Liebe), according Memory Alpha. I dimly remember it.....:)

There's a line in there about "falling for an unemotional man". That's what made me think of it.
 
It was a huge loss of status for Majel. She went from playing a serious officer in charge when Pike is gone, to a sad "old maid" character whose main feature is a crush on someone who wants nothing to do with her.

Add to that, her backstory that came along in "What are Little Girls Made Of?" renders the girlish Spock crush less plausible.

It was a symptom of two things: Nurse Chapel being shoehorned into the show because the producer's mistress wanted a job, and the broader problem of Star Trek having writers who were not good at writing female characters.

Or maybe they weren't allowed to be good at it. After NBC didn't like Majel in the role of Number One, apparently Gene lied to spare her feelings, telling her that the network wouldn't allow a woman in an authority role. Then he had to tell a lot of other people that story because Majel interacts with them. Then the fable took on a flattering aspect: Gene the feminist hero versus NBC the chauvinist wet blanket.

And in any case, in order to maintain the story that spared Majel's feelings, from then on Star Trek had to keep all Starfleet women in humble positions. Barbara Stanwyck was the honcho and very popular on an Old West show, The Big Valley. But in the sci-fi future, girls will be aboard to take notes and fetch coffee.

When you think about it, the whole Majel subterfuge was a wrong turn that hurt Star Trek a lot. Gene should have just been honest with his girlfriend for the good of the show.

I don't know a lot about the backstage politics but I do remember that back in those days romance and marriage was the major goal for women in TV. They might have a job and be good at it but it was just a stepping stone toward true love. After they found their man they were expected to give up their job.

The idea that love and marriage could be just one of many goals (or not a goal at all) wasn't explored until much later. I'm thinking around the time of the Mary Tyler Moore show.
 
I'm certain that Gene Roddenberry, himself, addressed - very specifically - how Nurse Chapel came to terms with her crush on Mister Spock in the novelisation of STAR TREK: The Motion Picture. I've not read it in some time, but it's in the book. He also goes on to describe Christine as a "handsome" woman, which I don't get, because Chapel looks exactly like his wife did! Maybe it's some kind of a joke with them; I wouldn't know.
 
Add to that, her backstory that came along in "What are Little Girls Made Of?" renders the girlish Spock crush less plausible.

It was a symptom of two things: Nurse Chapel being shoehorned into the show because the producer's mistress wanted a job, and the broader problem of Star Trek having writers who were not good at writing female characters.

Or maybe they weren't allowed to be good at it. After NBC didn't like Majel in the role of Number One, apparently Gene lied to spare her feelings, telling her that the network wouldn't allow a woman in an authority role. Then he had to tell a lot of other people that story because Majel interacts with them. Then the fable took on a flattering aspect: Gene the feminist hero versus NBC the chauvinist wet blanket.

And in any case, in order to maintain the story that spared Majel's feelings, from then on Star Trek had to keep all Starfleet women in humble positions. Barbara Stanwyck was the honcho and very popular on an Old West show, The Big Valley. But in the sci-fi future, girls will be aboard to take notes and fetch coffee.

I think this is perhaps too stark a version of the reality. I doubt that Gene encouraged Trek writers to write women badly to spare Majel's feelings yet write them badly they did. It's not as if Number One was a poorly written or poorly portrayed character. They just didn't want her or anyone like her and the outcome was that they instead wrote a long list of 'sexier', servile women instead. Vina is a great character too but we never saw her like again either.

Korby was not originally going to be Chapel's fiance but that of a guest character so it is true to say that Chapel was probably shoe-horned into this particular role because of Gene but this was also probably her best appearance. This is why she seems a bit fickle in season one.

What is more of a shame is that they immediately forgot that she wasn't actually just a nurse but rather a bio-researcher. She could have been joining landing parties as a resident astrobiologist and taking the lead in disease of the week shows. She wasn't shoe-horned in because of Gene but rather shoe-horned out because of sexist, rather negligent writing. We see only a few glimpses of the confident steel that Majel could more easily portray in favour of dull simpering. Bleh. Chapel could have been great.

I suspect the reason why they decided to keep her all doe-eyed for the next two seasons was largely as a hang-over from Rand, except since Spock would not be out womanising, he would not look like a two-timing dick, like Kirk, and also to stress Spock's alienness.

Spock was a bit conflicted about Christine but i think he felt largely guilt at not wanting to return her feelings. She definitely got over it.
 
^^ NBC didn't have a problem with the character of Number One. They had a problem with Majel. No one expressed that GR had to get rid of Number One. They simply wanted a different actress for the role.
 
^^ NBC didn't have a problem with the character of Number One. They had a problem with Majel. No one expressed that GR had to get rid of Number One. They simply wanted a different actress for the role.

I just don't buy this as anything more than a sound byte. None of the women that came after were anywhere near as professional or efficient as Number One, nor as intelligent and analytical as Vina. Almost all the women that came after lacked agency and were generally swayed by their emotions (possible exceptions include Miranda Jones (although they accuse her of being motivated by jealousy) and Zarabeth (who is really motivated by loneliness), while Uhura (who has to bare her abs) and Helen Noel (who is just too busy flirting to do her job) just about scrape by). I think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that Gene had sufficient influence to deliberately dumb down all the women on the show just to spare Majel's feelings. I do buy that the producers didn't like Majel and that they expressed opinions about the women in the pilot being too up front which led the writers to try and satisfy them by scaling back the influence of the ladies and making them more girly.
 
And in any case, in order to maintain the story that spared Majel's feelings, from then on Star Trek had to keep all Starfleet women in humble positions. Barbara Stanwyck was the honcho and very popular on an Old West show, The Big Valley. But in the sci-fi future, girls will be aboard to take notes and fetch coffee.
I doubt it was that deliberate. I think the passive roles you see for women in TOS are largely due to the prevalent attitudes of the time.

I just don't buy this as anything more than a sound byte.
It makes too much sense for it to be anything but the truth. NBC was a pretty progressive network for the time. Bill Cosby was an equal costar in I Spy and they greenlit Julia, a show with an African-American woman in the lead in 1968. Several memos reproduced in Inside Star Trek: The Real Story make it clear how committed NBC was to diverse programming. NBC was fine with the concept of the Number One character. They just didn't think that Majel Barrett was a strong enough actress to carry the part (I agree) and they were understandably concerned about a creator/producer blatantly giving his mistress a co-starring part on his new show. What happens if the relationship goes south or becomes public? NBC totally made the right call.

I think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that Gene had sufficient influence to deliberately dumb down all the women on the show just to spare Majel's feelings. I do buy that the producers didn't like Majel and that they expressed opinions about the women in the pilot being too up front which led the writers to try and satisfy them by scaling back the influence of the ladies and making them more girly.
There is absolutely no evidence that NBC said that the women were too up front in "The Cage." The only testimony that we have to that effect is from Gene Roddenberry, a man who routinely lied to paint himself in the best possible light and the network in the worst.

And again, I don't think there was any conscious conspiracy to "dumb down all the women on the show." That was just how women were routinely viewed in the mid-60s. Heck, I think that Kirk even has a line in "Who Mourns For Adonais?" about how Lt. Palamas will probably leave the service as soon as she finds the right man and gets married. It probably wasn't meant with any malice, but that was just how things were, especially among men of GR's generation.
 
I doubt it was that deliberate. I think the passive roles you see for women in TOS are largely due to the prevalent attitudes of the time.

It makes too much sense for it to be anything but the truth. NBC was a pretty progressive network for the time.

There is absolutely no evidence that NBC said that the women were too up front in "The Cage." The only testimony that we have to that effect is from Gene Roddenberry, a man who routinely lied to paint himself in the best possible light and the network in the worst.

And again, I don't think there was any conscious conspiracy to "dumb down all the women on the show." That was just how women were routinely viewed in the mid-60s.

I think we're talking at cross purposes a little. I don't doubt that the network didn't like him giving a role to his mistress and, while I think that Majel could easily have carried out the role, I don't doubt that others believed she couldn't. You see the same opinions casually banded about over every single actor in the show except maybe Nimoy and Kelley. I also don't doubt that Gene could have 'embellished' the story to his own benefit.

I'm simply making the point that Number One was not the only strong female character in the Cage. If the Network was happy with strong female characters then another character who wasn't in a command position would still have been possible quite easily at any point without risking Gene's alleged lies to protect his mistress's feelings. However, we didn't get one. Therefore I choose to believe that there was a degree of truth in what Gene said, whether you blame the general attitudes of the time or not, however embellished, because the women in the show were very watered down going forward from this point.
 
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