Chakotay's Rank

[Picard Alpha]

I've always been perplexed why Captain Janeway instated Chakotay with a provisional rank of Lieutenant Commander and Tom Paris was allowed to be fully re-instated with his former Starfleet rank of Lieutenant Junior grade. It seams to me that former Starfleet Lieutenant Commander Chakotay had a clean service record up until 2370 when he submitted his resignation from his job at Starfleet Academy. Tom Paris however covered up a 'piloting error', (I'd be a little suspicious of throwing the guy at my helm right out of the gate ) was discharged from Starfleet then joined the Maquis and found himself thrown in the New Zeeland Penal Settlement. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Why do you think Janeway felt the need to go this route?

 

[anais]

I always thought Paris got his rank back for helping Starfleet catch Chakotay and his crew.

 

[smeos]

It was probably because Chakotay was the Maquis leader, and he didn't want his people thinking that he'd gone completely back to Starfleet on them.

I've asked myself this question before, but I could never settle on a particularly satisfactory answer.

 

[DanCPA]

I always thought that Janeway gave Chakotay back his LCDR rank because it was his rank... From there he promoted and assigned as necessary. Given that Voyager was mostly Ensigns and crewmen, the department heads needed only to be LtJG's and above (Except for poor Harry... who should have been promoted). It seems obvious that after Tuvok, Paris was next in line for command, so he needed to be either a Lt or a LtJG... either works for me

 

[Picard Alpha]

I don't know about that; I'll take the bet that Janeway was impressed with the way he handled the Bridge when there were no experienced crewman around and the way he handled himself on the Ocampan surface. She may have also wanted to 'fix' her good friend and former CO's son. Maybe she beleived if she mothered him into the job that he'd clean up and be a valuable member of the crew. Beats throwing the guy back in the brig right? Specially when your helmsmen is dead and Lt. Rolands is so pissed off because your promoting an ex-con over a guy with a clean track record. Ha!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Chakotay *was* a LCDR before he left Starfleet. He wasn't like some of the Maquis on board, who had never served before. He was a Starfleet officer who resigned.

 

[Picard Alpha]

Chakotay *was* a LCDR before he left Starfleet. He wasn't like some of the Maquis on board, who had never served before. He was a Starfleet officer who resigned.

Your not getting it.

I asked why Chakotay was given a provisional rank and Paris was instated to a field commission. Remember all of the Maquis wore those other pips.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always thought that Janeway gave Chakotay back his LCDR rank because it was his rank...

Agreed. Unlike most of the Maquis under his command, who had never served in Starfleet before.

It seems obvious that after Tuvok, Paris was next in line for command, so he needed to be either a Lt or a LtJG... either works for me

Ironically:

Spoiler: relaunch

In the VOY relaunch, Paris is a LCDR as well - and has Chakotay's old job. (A lot of people were promoted two steps in rank at once, to make up for the time spent in the Delta Quadrant where they couldn't receive promotions. So that's why Chakotay is now a Captain, Kim a full Lieutenant, Paris a LCDR, etc.)

 

[DanCPA]

True... but to me, it seemed as if the Maquis with talent were made Ensigns and the rest of them were made crew. With the exception of the one department head, who was made a LtJG... seems fairly equitable to me.

 

[Picard Alpha]

Only because I mentioned Mr. Rollins earlier I thought this was funny... http://members.aol.com/RustyW9999/scottmac.html.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

True... but to me, it seemed as if the Maquis with talent were made Ensigns and the rest of them were made crew. With the exception of the one department head, who was made a LtJG... seems fairly equitable to me.

B'Elanna, for her part, did complete *some* of her Academy time. There may have been a few Maquis who did as well (or who actually were full Starfleet before leaving). But I'm guessing most of them didn't.

 

[doubleohfive]

Chakotay wasn't reinstated as a lieutenant commander. Janeway made him a commander. When the first season aired originally, it was "ROBERT BELTRAN as Commander Chakotay" ... and he was always referred to as "Commander"; I can't recall a single instance when he was referred to (at least in terms of rank) as anything other than that.

 

[DanCPA]

but his rank pip showed that of LCDR. And it's common to refer to LCDR's as "Commander" in all but the most formal of situations

 

[doubleohfive]

So? Tuvok's rank pips were a joke the first couple years on the show. O'Brien was listed as a Lt JG for years before they made him an Ensign *THEN* a different rank pip as "Chief" on DS9.

My point is I take dialog and screen titles more seriously than a wardrobe goof.

 

[DanCPA]

My point is I take dialog and screen titles more seriously than a wardrobe goof.

I wouldn't consider it a goof because it lasted for 7 years.
Tuvok's initial rank was "corrected" later.

 

[doubleohfive]

I know it lasted for seven years. But no one -- not the guys writing the title for the show all the way up to the writers writing the episodes themselves ever referred to him as a Lieutenant Commander. It was always, always "Commander."

 

[Red Ranger]

I know it lasted for seven years. But no one -- not the guys writing the title for the show all the way up to the writers writing the episodes themselves ever referred to him as a Lieutenant Commander. It was always, always "Commander."

Mutarada:

Point well taken. However, it seems both costuming and title goofs are de riguer in Star Trek.

Take TOS. It's clearly established in later eps that Spock is a full commander, in dialogue and sleeve braid, but he is officially mentioned a number of times as lt. cmdr. in the first season despite having two full braids, denoting a full commander in the uniform of the time.

They also made this mistake with a character named Lt. Cmdr. Giotto, the security chief from Devil in the Dark. He is definitely wearing full commander's braids, too. He should have worn the same braids Scotty and McCoy wore, a broken braid above an unbroken one.

The most famous being, of course, O'Brien from TNG then DSN. At first, he was an unnamed conn officer, then eventually became Transporter Chief O'Brien, but first he wore an ensign pip, then a full lieutenant's pips before getting a hollow pip that supposedly denoted a chief petty officer. In later seasons of DSN, they came up with a more stylized CPO pip for O'Brien that somewhat resembles a modern-day CPO's stripes.

And VOY was rife with them. As mentioned above, there was the mixup with Tuvok's pips and actual rank. First, he wore lt. cmdr.'s pips but was called lieutenant, then they fixed that, then finally promoted him to lt. cmdr.

And while it's true Chakotay was always referred to as just cmdr., his provisional rank pin does denote the rank of lt. cmdr. Perhaps that's the highest provisional rank a captain can give a non-member of Starfleet? Also, recall that Janeway's previous first officer was also a lt. cmdr, so perhaps the crew complement of Voyager only warranted a lt. cmdr. as her first officer.

All this means that they messed up! Frankly, TNG and DSN, with the exception of O'Brien, were the only shows that were consistent with rank pins and titles, and maybe ENT, too.

Red Ranger

 

[DanCPA]

It was always, always "Commander."

Maybe he had a fragile ego... Don't know

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And isn't Chakotay supposed to be Ro Laren's former instructor at Advanced Tactical Training? She mentioned this person once - a lieutenant commander who defected to the Maquis. I thought this meant Chakotay (after all, VOY was just about ready to premiere at that time).

As for Tuvok: This may be reaching - then again, I seem to be good at that - but it *might* be possible that Tuvok originally was a LCDR, but demoted for his actions in "Prime Factors".

 

[doubleohfive]

1) In the TNG Companion, they confirm that Ro was making a veiled reference to Chakotay.

2) Tuvok was a lieutenant in the early days of Voyager yet wore lieutenant commander pips. Then they fixed the pips to reflect his rank of lieutenant. THEN he was promoted to lieutenant commander not long afterward. Yeah, you'd think he was demoted but the events were so far apart that it makes no sense.

3) Finally, I always interpreted Chakotay's rank in "Caretaker" to be commander as in he's the guy in charge of the fuckin' ship, hence the reason the Maquis all called him commander. Didn't have anything to do with rank; the maquis didn't care about ranks. So Janeway made him a commander and her XO. Yeah, Cavit was a lieutenant commander too, but that has nothing to do with Chakotay.