Spoilers Chabon's Notes on the Romulans

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Tuskin38, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Wonder if when they landed, the Romulans fought among themselves? like say Humans today. Vulcan went all logical and mostly peaceful. but the Romulans were the warlike version, and it strikes me that they would bring some of that with them, and fought amongst themselves for awhile?
     
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  2. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honor blades are a novel creation?
     
  3. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Although it's easy for us as the audience to ignore since Tom Hardy doesn't really look like Patrick, in-universe it would be really, really weird to the Romulans that someone who looks just like their deceased Praetor Shinzon (and the same man who killed him) rallies Romulans towards a Federation relief effort and then runs off when it falls apart. That Romulan senator in the show had double reason to hate Picard. Not only for his part in the Federation's failed evacuation, but he's also the reason Shinzon even existed (Shinzon killed the entire Romulan Senate in Nemesis, many of whom were likely mentors and/or friends to the Romulan Senator in Picard). He probably doubled his anger in that duel by not just seeing Picard, but also Shinzon.
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    The Romulan ones yes.
     
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  5. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    @Yistaan, you may have nailed down some subtext that many of us should have seen clearly re: Shinzon.
     
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  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Wasn't Shinzon a creation of the Romulans? It they didn't use Picard's DNA, it would just be a different Starfleet officer. Not really Picard's fault.
     
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  7. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    That Romulan Senator wasn't exactly thinking rationally. After all, the Mars attack and withdrawal of aid for Romulan evacuation wasn't Picard's fault either, but the Senator was willing to kill him over it.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Picard was the man with the plan for the Evacuation. The guy who put it into motion. The guy who was there on the ground shaking hands, rubbing shoulders and saying things are gonna be okay. Shinzon, OTOH was a surprise to him, but not to the Romulans.
     
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  9. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  10. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    It's taken me a while to respond to Chabon’s notes on the Romulans, since it requires a deep critical thought as to what it means to the greater Star Trek Universe.

    Romulan government – an attempt to have a decentralized government in their history. But also shows some semblance of dysfunction if there is uncertainty in what other cells are doing. It also seems prone to allegations of secret societies really pulling the strings of the Romulan government and claims of a deep state, due to the amount of suspicious various cells hold towards each other. It seems rather easy to suggest that another cell is engaged in a conspiracy against them the lower they are of the totem pole, and opens the door to a conspiracy theory culture.

    Romulan theatre – seems a bit one note, and suggests some sort of successive traumas exists in Romulan history for their theatre to continually focus on the same themes of deception, treachery and conspiracy over and over. It does also create a question as to whether the way to get a Romulan to trust someone is to tell a story that holds those themes.

    Romulan marriage – if any society would get a kick out of having secret lovers, it would be the Romulans, imo. And the Verificator role and general comfortableness of multiple sexual partners outside of Romulan marriage seems to challenge this.

    However, what the trust bond suggests to me is that Romulans technically value trust; unrequited trust is a big deal to them, especially when dealing with outsiders. Trust conquers all - the Romulan version of love conquers all - must have been a part of Romulan philosophy at some point. Which then begs whether Romulans also believe in “don’t love anyone” – the Romulan version of “don’t trust anyone” – and also show their Vulcan connection in suppressing emotion.

    Secret police – as Chabon wants to push that that Tal Shiar are more than just the Romulan version of the Stasi or Gestapo, or capable of doing more than the Romulan version of COINTELPRO when targeting their enemies, basically (using Iran as an allegory here) the Tal Shiar are the equivalent of the Revolutionary Guard (protectors of the Romulan political system) or Quds Force (unconventional warfare and military intelligence operations). Since Death's Head SS can refer to armoured warfare (i.e tanks) or administering concentration camps and extermination camps, and I can’t imagine Romulans engaging in either activity come the TNG era; seems too primitive for them. And Green Berets covers a wide range of tasks that include direct action, counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism, and counterproliferation of WMD; how many threats would the Romulans be receiving by the 24th century – both internally and externally - to have a need for a Tal Shiar like that. Although, maybe it’s a sign as to how the Tal Shiar has evolved over the years. And would those reports even be true?

    Romulan culture - since their culture is based in deception, what happened – either on Vulcan or upon landing on what became Romulus - for the Romulans to adopt this culture? Its suggested that it due to the high amount of mimetic life on Romulus when the first settlers landed, which suggests that Romulans decided to become one with nature, in a sense. How much of what became Romulan culture was a part of Vulcan culture prior to the Time of Awakening? Since it seems a rather significant betrayal must had occurred for secrecy and deception to become a part of the Romulan psyche. Not sure what is so treacherous about the animals and plants on Romulus.

    And as for Romulans habit of cover stories, it makes me wonder if the Romulans actually knew that the Dominion weren’t actually responsible for Senator Vreenak’s death but they ran with it anyways. A question more suited for DS9, I know.

    Qowat Milat – if the Praetor could not come to power without their approval, and the Romulan Empress comes from this class, then that makes them a rather important part of Romulan politics. So, what impact do they have on the Romulan Free State in the time of PIC?
     
  11. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How many successor states alongside the RFS are there circa 2399? I'd imagine the number varies from month to month, given this cultural context.
     
  12. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    I will believe it when they match up with Garak's notes from when he was undercover as a gardener.
     
  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Don't like it.. To much of a mono culture. And honestly, people would yern for freedom and overthrow that type of government At least in areas to begin with. Get tired if it, like Eastern Germany and there Stasi.
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Have you met Star Trek? ;)
     
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  15. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Yep! :ouch:
     
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  16. jfordny

    jfordny Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    No, it's really deep! The Romulans like secrets! And secrecy! And they're secretive!

    Giving the Romulans at least two dimensions would be nice.
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We got dimensions on screen.
     
  18. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. :vulcan:
     
  19. Rhodan

    Rhodan Commander Red Shirt

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    This whole thing IMHO pushed Romulans into kinda Cardassian territory. And I don´t mean the Orias system...
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  20. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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