CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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I'd never say the characters were unimportant in that regard. You need both, of course, and debating it too intently is like arguing which is the more important element in water - oxygen or hydrogen? Twice as many hydrogen atoms, sure, but oxygen out masses that pair by 4 to 1. Telling arguments, indeed. But really, without both, you don't have water at all. Now, instead, just for fun, argue which has more energy - an ounce of antimatter or an ounce of regular matter?
I don't really see any debate in my mind, Star Trek is about the stories, and you need characters for a story. You can have a story with the characters and no ship, but you can't tell a story with just a ship.
Well, the comic ran for 78 issues, and is still ongoing, and the game has over 200 reviews on Amazon, so obviously a lot of people did.
Sure, but in your other post you said the ship had been introduced "moments" before, so I was just pointing out that the ship we saw destroyed was around for a lot more than just Beyond.
I started with TNG, I was actually born just a couple weeks before it premiered.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot more that appeals to people than just those things.
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Did someone else say, "Cash"?
Neil
You can have stories with different characters, too, but they'd be different stories with different chemistries. But would they be as loved as Trek was? So likening the ship's importance to a beloved character doesn't seem wrong to me, even if the ship isn't a sentient being, and disagreeing with somebody who says the ships are unimportant still seems right to me. But yeah, you can get rid of the ships, but would it still be Star Trek? You swallow something like the concept of transwarp beaming whole and you can pretty much mothball the fleet and go from star system to star system light years apart in mere seconds, but do you have Star Trek anymore, or something more like Stargate SG-1? I think that was a great series, too, and wonderful stories, but it wasn't Star Trek. Star Trek needs its ships; they're important to the flavor of Trek. Even DS9 either used runabouts, that were far too often seemingly as powerful or as quick or as capable as larger starships, or they adopted one like the Defiant. Of course you can make stories without ships. I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying you need a ship to make a decent Trek-like series, and the ships are far from unimportant.
It was more of a figurative than literal moment, but I'll take your word for it that some games and/or some comics elevated the emotional attachment some fans had for the relatively younger ships. I would be less inclined to believe the same percentage of Trek fans was as emotionally invested that way, but I can see it happening for some, and just another demonstration how important the ships can be to the stories.
So you first saw TNG in reruns and not even as they originally aired, or did you get into them before the series concluded by the time you reached 7 years of age? Well, I do sometimes wonder if one's first exposure to a Trek series has a greater likelihood of making that particular series their favorite Trek series, but I've never read about how likely that might be. I was once amazed, however, when somebody watched the self-destruct sequence in The Search For Spock and loved it, but only later saw it in Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (the reverse order I would think most people would see those) and thought the "callback," so to speak, as just that much more impressive. So the order one is exposed to these things apparently makes a big difference.
Would you say there were some "bigger" moments than those 3 that would top your great human-relation stories in that movie? Just curious which ones you might think are bigger, if any. Or even your perhaps different opinion on why the film had a larger appeal across gender lines than most Trek series seem to have.
I never said the ships were unimportant, I'm just saying that the characters are more important, and that it's the ships' connection to the characters that makes them important.
I never said the same amount of people would be connected to the Kelvin E, just that we had more time with it than you originally said, and that some people might have had a connection to it.
My family watched it as it originally aired, so I've been watching it since I was a baby.
The building of Kirk and Spock's building relationship was a big human relation story, Kirk meeting Old Spock, Kirk and Spock rescuing Pike, Kirk sacrificing himself for his crew, Khan's actions he takes for the sake of his people, the backstory for the bad guys in Beyond. Those are just the ones I can come up with right off my head.
It was someone else who suggested the ships and classes, etc. were unimportant, and I thought you were fully supporting the assertion. I don't deny a ship alone wouldn't be that interesting, maybe even if it were sentient, but I do feel just people alone sans ship, while it can make great drama, wouldn't capture the essence of Trek.
And I admitted it was more time than I thought, but as a figurative "moment" rather than a literal one, I wasn't really locking down a specific amount of time other than to say it was much shorter. I thought far shorter, but you demonstrated to my satisfaction via computer games and comic books, it was longer for some than I initially thought. I just don't know how many more, so my feeling it wouldn't have the same audience-wide impact would hold, unless the % of the audience that enjoyed the games and comic books was huge.
I would have been about 5 when TOS originally started airing, but sufficiently developed to appreciate it - not as much as I later would through reruns, of course, but I would imagine it would take a few seasons of TNG before you could appreciate what you were even looking at. But I'm sure you also watched many reruns since, too.
Most of those things you mentioned seemed horribly forced to me, but lest I get into the whole topic of why I greatly dislike those movies, I'm not about to tell anyone if they enjoyed it, they were wrong to do so, or anything like that. If anything, I'm envious.
I'm assuming you're referring to me. I don't think they're unimportant, just a poor basis for drama, and the central story behind Axanar seemed to be a ship-building arms race between the Klingons and the Federation.
Yeah, it was you. But I'd say many people care about those things. And I believe ships are foundational to most Trek stories. We can certainly have great drama without ships, or not pay too much attention to the ship for many stories, but it's the focus of why they are together there and then, and when they tell their stories, they'll always mention which ship and which commander and what mission.
Yeah, Axanar is mainly about an arms race between the Klingons and the Federation, and how one man in particular so skillfully used the latest tech/ships to overcome the hammering the humans were taking and set the stage for Federation superiority for the up and coming Constitution Class Starship era, with Heart, Pike, Kirk, and all the rest of them. Since it just fleshes out a story that was already alluded to in WGD, I'm not looking for much more than that, but I can see how the latest tech and some clever tactics (which become required reading at Starfleet Academy) would be the two most important aspects of that story.
I just don't think Peters did a good job, from what I've seen, but the Ares class starships or the arms race isn't what bothers me about it. I'm just not seeing brilliance on Garth's part. That's the other half of the story. Where is it?
That's the main reason it's an issue for me. In Prelude we're told Garth is such an amazing captain and strategist, and yet the supposedly amazing maneuver he pulls that impresses everyone was essentially just to fly his ship forwards and shoot the Klingons. If you're going to make the ships and tactics such an important part of the story they should actually be impressive.
I was thinking that same thing.
So - I'm thinking this has been the longest dry-spell on this thread since it started a year-and-a-half ago. Has there been no news on the AP front? Has he finally collapsed under the weight of his own bullshit?
It's quiet...too quiet.
The wind blows...a tumble weed rolls by...a coyote howls off in the distance...
It's quiet...too quiet.
The wind blows...a tumble weed rolls by...a coyote howls off in the distance...
He's still out there prattling on his blog and podcast. Not worth wasting your time.So - I'm thinking this has been the longest dry-spell on this thread since it started a year-and-a-half ago. Has there been no news on the AP front? Has he finally collapsed under the weight of his own bullshit?
It's quiet...too quiet.
Roger that...
Now Twenty Full Cycles,
Commander. Still No Sign.
I Say Peter's Must Have Been
Humbled. He Must Have Gone On.
Shhh. He Is There, Somewhere. I Feel It.
Commander. Still No Sign.
I Say Peter's Must Have Been
Humbled. He Must Have Gone On.
Shhh. He Is There, Somewhere. I Feel It.
He's trying to set up Axacon for late August 2018, he's attacking anyone who says anything that he doesn't like on Axanar Facebook page, now using the Axanar blog to do the same thing including using a Vet with PTSD to attack people from Axamonitor. He considers himself the creator of a feature-length movie and his Mouth of Sauron is trying to generate negativity towards STC using they are violating the guidelines finger.So - I'm thinking this has been the longest dry-spell on this thread since it started a year-and-a-half ago. Has there been no news on the AP front? Has he finally collapsed under the weight of his own bullshit?
It's quiet...too quiet.
Is anyone actually going to this "Axacon" thing? Other than the party-faithful, of course. I can't envision much more than the first row of chairs in the conference room being filled. More waste of donator money that was supposed to go towards making the film(s). If any of it is actually remaining to begin with, of course. How the hell is he going to pay for a convention venue?
Axa-con. That's truth in advertising, right there. 
He'll have it in his new warehouse and use the proceeds to pay the rent. Never mind, he'll have a fundraisers to pay the rent, then use the proceeds from the con to buy gas for the Lexus. About a tank's worth, if that much.
He'll have it in his new warehouse and use the proceeds to pay the rent. Never mind, he'll have a fundraisers to pay the rent, then use the proceeds from the con to buy gas for the Lexus. About a tank's worth, if that much.
Express.
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