CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
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Details emerge about the delayed Axanar studio Kickstarter. Alec Peters’ pitch video was prematurely released on YouTube, then removed. The video makes the argument for donors to donate $15,000-18,000 a month to keep the beleaguered studio afloat, ostensibly to help other fan producers. Also: We link to a copy of the four and a half-minute video.
So he offers the facility for free to "fan films". And just how is he going to enforce this and keep out for profit projects who just tell him they are a fan film? How is he going to protect himself against any lawsuits if he is providing resources to a project that is a fan film but gets sued for copyright violation?
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AX: "Give us a $1,000,000 and we'll make the best fan film ever. No, not just a fan film, a real high quality production better than that from CBS and Paramount."
*receives $2,000,000*
AX: "We bought a studio, new phones, new carpets, and we're sending out your stuff you paid for when you donated... eventually. Look at this giant green screen!"
*CBS/P sues*
AX: "It's not our fault, we're a fan film! Other fan films are doing this! Go after them, too! They're bad! They're illegal! Sue them! We just want to make a great fan film!"
*case settled*
CBS: "You can finish your film, using the money you raised."
*several weeks later*
AX: "We'd like you to donate to keep our studio open, so we can help other fan films."
*receives $2,000,000*
AX: "We bought a studio, new phones, new carpets, and we're sending out your stuff you paid for when you donated... eventually. Look at this giant green screen!"
*CBS/P sues*
AX: "It's not our fault, we're a fan film! Other fan films are doing this! Go after them, too! They're bad! They're illegal! Sue them! We just want to make a great fan film!"
*case settled*
CBS: "You can finish your film, using the money you raised."
*several weeks later*
AX: "We'd like you to donate to keep our studio open, so we can help other fan films."
Thanks for the link to watch it!Details emerge about the delayed Axanar studio Kickstarter. Alec Peters’ pitch video was prematurely released on YouTube, then removed. The video makes the argument for donors to donate $15,000-18,000 a month to keep the beleaguered studio afloat, ostensibly to help other fan producers. Also: We link to a copy of the four and a half-minute video.
So my response to it:
-I watched it knowing myself to be strongly biased against the defendant
-The Pitch video gave me the impression all this is already going on at the studio, this lots of filming of lots of fan films in the space.
-All the way through it I kept thinking if I didn't know from my own research and documentation of the long history of the character and actions of the defendant I would certainly be positively swayed. And since the video pushed all the Good Buttons for *me*, I experienced fear for those who would/will view it and believe all is as it is shown to be in the video. Not knowing how often in the defendant's previous businesses, business dealings, and crowdfundings things that 'were' have without notice changed to become things that are 'now'/'and anyway, have always been the 'now' way because the 'were' way never existed'. That if I hadn't already learned about Legion M being the first fan-funded movie studio in History I would have believed the defendant when he says industry studios will be the first fan-funded movie studio in history.
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Legion M Entertainment, founded March 2016
After I watched it I started wondering:
-Donors to the payallthebills kickstarter can film our fan films there for nothing? I like that.
-Though on second thought I began wondering how this could possibly be cost effective for the studio.
- I can donate $20 and make my fan film, without restriction, for 'nothing'?
- Or do I have a minimum $ donation to get this benefit?
- Or do I have to be a monthly donor of a minimum amount to get this benefit?
- Will there be codicils giving parameters of filming for me to be able to film my fan film there? (length/other paying projects to work around/number of days I want vs am allowed to film/*other*)
- Are there going to need to be surcharges added to the 'for nothing' to make this a viable way to run the studio?
- Is it only the rental of the studio space that is 'for nothing' but I pay for the electricity? And the AC? And rent the lights? The lighting scaffolding? Be renting meeting room? Paying for garbage removal? The green screen could be important to my film - would I be renting it? By the day?/hour?/the whole thing?/a section of it? Will there be clean-up fees for the facility including but not limited to hallways, rest rooms, parking lot, meeting rooms, dressing rooms? Security persons? *Other*? Which could be reasonable to me if the bill for these and other items are spelled out and agreed to before I commit, and are transparent in actual costs.
On face value I thought it was a very well done Pitch video, and I am strongly biased against the defendant. I don't see why it was taken down and am curious what will be different in the authorized Pitch video.
And as I mentioned, I am fearful for those watching it who will donate to the payallthebills kickstarter, and to those donating who are expecting all to be as it seems when banking on the Pitch to make their fan films because I recognize and have seen the evidence of the charisma of the defendant in explaining it all away to those who desire to believe. And since the defendant is already making the false claim that industry studio will be the first fan funded movie studio in history.....
What is it our series captains have done when encountering an area of space that holds hidden dangers? Set out warning buoys around it?
I see the possibilities of hidden dangers here. And for the donors to the payallthebills kickstarter... I very much hope I'm wrong.
So, dear donors & possible donors to the payallthebills kickstarter, read every detail in it before donating. Read The Fine Print. Do some Internet searches on the defendant regarding his past business dealings with other people's money. The MGM prop sale & That Shipping Company is a good place to start. It's all there, easy to find, from then to current day. Make an informed decision. And this is very important, if you do decide to donate after all, keep up with all the notices, blogs, vlogs, podcasts, site postings, FB.... Everything everywhere. Stay abreast of possible changes in policy and/or direction of the project that could occur.
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@carlosp, where is Legion M's studio anyway? I can't find a physical location for it. Does it exist outside of the internet?
[EDIT: (found for me by @carlosp)
Legion M Entertainment, founded March 2016
So, Industry Studios will be the first fan-funded movie studio in history?
False
[EDIT: (found for me by @carlosp)
Legion M Entertainment, founded March 2016
So, Industry Studios will be the first fan-funded movie studio in history?
False
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Due dilligence prevents disappointment. Any time. 
Hey Alec, I can't pick just one SwearTrek GIF............but trust me, most of the newest ones here definitely apply to you (including this)
http://sweartrek.tumblr.com/
http://sweartrek.tumblr.com/
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So Peters asserts the studio is not for profit, while planning to get the public to pay it's rent to allow him to run for profit Propworx for free?
He really thinks he's the smartest in the room and can just hoodwink the world entire. It's cringeworthy.
He really thinks he's the smartest in the room and can just hoodwink the world entire. It's cringeworthy.
Dear folks who did some Googling and found this topic. Kudos! And I'm sorry about how long it is and all the references to Cash (cue @Indysolo ). I realize this is a ton to wade through and I imagine this post will get buried, but here's hoping at least someone sees it.
I know you are wondering about Alec Peters's reputation for truthfulness. About whether he fulfills his promises. About whether the Industry Studios space is at all legal or if using Star Trek intellectual property to raise crowdfunding to pay for that studio is kosher or is permitted by the IP holders, CBS and Paramount Pictures Corporation. I imagine you are wondering whether you are spending your hard-earned money wisely, and whether this project will have follow through. Will it have legs? Will fan films truly be able to use that space? Is the space up to code? Are there alternatives out there? Whether you are a potential donor or a potential filmmaker, you have questions. That's why you're here, yes?
Here is what I can tell you, in no particular order:
And then ask yourself if this is okay.
I know you are wondering about Alec Peters's reputation for truthfulness. About whether he fulfills his promises. About whether the Industry Studios space is at all legal or if using Star Trek intellectual property to raise crowdfunding to pay for that studio is kosher or is permitted by the IP holders, CBS and Paramount Pictures Corporation. I imagine you are wondering whether you are spending your hard-earned money wisely, and whether this project will have follow through. Will it have legs? Will fan films truly be able to use that space? Is the space up to code? Are there alternatives out there? Whether you are a potential donor or a potential filmmaker, you have questions. That's why you're here, yes?
Here is what I can tell you, in no particular order:
- Mr. Peters received over $1.4 million in crowdfunding, and an unspecified additional amount of money to produce a fan film he called Star Trek: Axanar. Except for a two-minute-long walk and talk (referred to as the 'Vulcan Scene'), that movie was never made. There is a prequel to it, called Prelude to Axanar. It's on YouTube.
- Prelude was created by talent who have nearly all left the project. This included a rather public Twitter squabble with actor Tony Todd.
- CBS and Paramount sued Axanar and Mr. Peters for intellectual property infringement. It wasn't them 'running scared' or 'trying to take down the little guy' or any other such nonsense. The lawsuit is on PACER or you can head over to Axamonitor.com and get the court documents for free. Don't want to give Axamonitor any traffic? Then PM me and I will send you the documents. I have paid for them and they are a matter of public record. Read them at your leisure; there are lots of them. And they all are sworn documents (under penalty of perjury) and the documents from both sides support the concept that Axanar was sued because it was an infringing work. Period.
- CBS and Paramount, like every other intellectual property owner, are under no obligation to sue any other fan films or any other infringers, not then, not now, not ever. Don't think that's fair? Then write to Congress and ask them to do something about a good two centuries of copyright law in America.
- The amount which Mr. Peters received to make Axanar was more than most if not all other Star Trek fan film makers had ever received. Others have made films (sometimes multiple films) with less. Yet he did not finish the film.
- Instead, he rented a warehouse space and began to attempt to convert it to a studio. Hence the current crowdfunding campaign.
- There are tons of studio spaces in and around the Los Angeles area. Creative Googling will find you millions of hits if you Google Los Angeles film studio for rent. Peters did not have to convert a warehouse and take on rent of some $15,000/month. The project could have filmed in a number of locations and could have been done or nearly done even before this latest crowdfunding campaign - and a campaign of this magnitude would not have been needed at all.
- The case with CBS and Paramount has been settled. One of the known terms of the settlement was that Peters could only make Axanar in conformance with the IP holders' stated fan film guidelines. That means two 15-minute-long segments. Even with all of the $1.4 million+ gone (Where did it all go? You might want to start asking that), those two 15-minute segments could still be made with a far smaller crowdfunding campaign and without converting a warehouse into a studio.
- Earlier crowdfunding campaigns by Mr. Peters, even when running at their best, were still late to deliver perks and showed disturbing behind the scenes disorganization. Consider that when you also consider questions such as:
- Is the studio space zoned for filmmaking?
- Are the lighting grid and electrical grid up to code?
- Has it passed a fire marshall's inspection?
- Was any of the conversion done by union labor?
- Does Peters have adequate liability insurance, also fire and flood, in case the unthinkable happens?
- Peters doesn't own the space. What happens to films in progress, sets, and your crowdfunding dollars if he and his company are evicted?
- What are the hidden costs of 'free' use of the studio? Does that include trash removal, electricity, etc. (h/t to @ThankYouGeneR)
- Is the crew trained properly?
And then ask yourself if this is okay.
This needs to be turned into one of those whiteboard video things. I'm thinking a modest Kickstarter to get it off the ground, then maybe a bigger IGG to pay for distribution.
There is a precedent for the kind of structure LFIM says he wants to set up. When some members of The Tampa Bay Times (formerly St. Petersburg Times) newspaper in Florida wanted to sell out, the other family members decided to sell the paper to the non-profit Poynter Institute for Media Studies, a media think-tank set up by the family's patriarch Nelson Poynter. The profits made by the paper (which at that time was VERY profitable) were to fund Poynter's mission of teaching journalism's best practices. I have no idea whether LFIM is taking his cue from that structure. If he is, he's overlooking something very important: according to this article the Times exploited a loophole in the law that allows a teaching institution. It took years for the IRS to sign off on that structure back in the 90's and the Times/Poynter resources to fight that battle were much greater than what LFIM has.
Bottom line (IMHO) opinion: LFIM's gambit won't work.
Bottom line (IMHO) opinion: LFIM's gambit won't work.
You've just made my "due dilligence" remark completely obsolete, @jespah .
You are a wonderful woman!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that rule only applies to copyrights. If the IP is a patent or trademark, does not the legal IP owner have to defend it at every turn?
The business model for this is very flawed, I could go on but I don't feel like typing it all out. /Lazy Today
There is no way he will get what he looking for in Kickstarter, its just not going to happen folks. Indeed, I will probably find it amusing to see how the campaign is doing from time to time.
There is no way he will get what he looking for in Kickstarter, its just not going to happen folks. Indeed, I will probably find it amusing to see how the campaign is doing from time to time.
Gosh that was a good read. Thanks for the link. I had never heard of the Poynter Institute. (this Thread is so informative!) Though I do get the gist of it there was also much I didn't quite understand and will take some pleasant time to better understand the intricacies shown there of this surprisingly difficult model. Ownership must be willing to give the [company] away, a willingness to give up a good deal of wealth, giving away a substantial chunk of wealth, give up most of the value in the organization.
A meritorious model, also full of expensive pitfalls.
A very good read.
You're right. Their physical address isn't easy to find. They have offices in Emeryville, Calif. (across the Bay from San Francisco and not far from Pixar), and Burbank. Emeryville is their primary location. Their street address is 6435 Christie Ave, Suite 500 Emeryville, California 94608
^^^^
I ULTRA-LIKE the quoted post above. Too bad that in all honesty I doubt enough people will see it BEFORE they Pledge to Mr. Peters new Kickstarter. Weel see; but my hat is off to Madame Jespah who summed everything up regarding Alec Peters and the Axanar/Industry Studio situation.
I do have to say though that I CAN'T BELIEVE that using Star Trek and Axanar (both are mentioned in that pitch video) to do public crowdfunding for a for profit business is within the terms of the CBS/Paramount V. Axanar settlement. <--- If it is, then yeah, I have to wonder myself why CBS or Paramount bothered to sue - because in the end Mr. Peters HAS USED the Star Trek IP in part to obtain start up capital and (if this latest Kickstarter is successful) continued funding for his for profit business.
Nonprofit organizations with for-profit businesses that help fund the mother nonprofit are not unheard of. In fact, there's an entire sector of the economy devoted to it. It's called social entrepreneurship, and I worked in that field in the early 2000s. Take a tour through Wikipedia for more details.
I think, you and I, we both know, where she can or probably will place it for everone to see... Who socializes the social media?
Thank you so much for tracking down this information for me.
Legion M Entertainment, founded March 2016
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