CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[HIjol]

I would be surprised and maybe a little confused if CBS/Paramount threw its support behind Axanar.

As I Posted up-Thread, I liked what I saw and wanted more, from a strictly visual, not legal, point of view...I would be very surprised if TPTB were not a little "secretly" impressed.

A Vulcan would win a "speed" race...a Klingon would win a long-distance race.

 

[wtriker1701]

Shat?

Actually, you might have found a new idea for a documentary by World's Famous Captain Kirk himself, diving into fan films and their significance within the realms of Star Trek. Let's call it: "The Fans' Summit - How William Shatner Saves The Fanfilm Community"

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I know this is a largely anti Axanar thread, and I myself have mixed feelings about it. I am a supporter of many fan projects though, and still want to see this project, and others continue to be made. Without delving into the "fan film politics" and issues with members of the team. How would you feel if Paramount changes their tune? Also how would you feel if Paramount, decided to start going after all fan productions.



And another very important question if you have the time and logic.... Who would win in a footrace; A Klingon or a Vulcan???

As has been said by Pindar, this is not an anti-Axanar thread per se, it's about the shenanigans milking naive donors into making a for-profit studio from a not-for-profit "fan film" ("fan film", as of lately, it is)".
If C/P should decide, it's alright for "Ares Studio" to stem the task of producing AXANAR, or even STAR TREK AXANAR, then fine. Let them produce. Why not? The movie itself would be reviewed as any other "fan film" production to date. It would not just be torn apart because of its producer's big mouth, but fairly reviewed like any other production (STC; STNV; STR, etc...). It also wouldn't be glorified, just because the producers said, anything else would be just "hate".

If C/P would decide to after other fan productions because of the Axanar debacle, it would leave a big stench. And that's where it could become an Anti-Axanar approach wherever the name was spoken. It could even become its own pop culture reference, as in "Have an Axanar to grind?".

But then again: If C/P would (improbably) decide: "Axanar - go ahead!", it still had to be seen, if they could deliver as promised...

But that's all very hypothetical, of course.

You see, it's not about being against Axanar itself, it's just about, how to give the naive donors a wake-up call. And it's against the shenanigans and quibblings and retcons from "The Management".

 

[Albinator]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I would do the same thing i would have done if the suit had never occurred. Ignore Axanar. No interest in fan-films in general.

 

[Albinator]

Re: this being an "Anti-Axanar Thread":

I would not say that it's NOT an Anti-Axanar thread-- simply because the naysayers who are on the side of Paramount/CBS have so few places in which to congregate given the amount of banning and deleting going on from the Axanar groups-- they have all inevitably found themselves here.

So while the term "anti-axanar" is not quite accurate (as we are, for the most part, simply talking facts and at least attempting to be unbiased, with some exceptions), it is worth pointing out that the bulk of this now-600 page thread has been discussion between fans who side with Paramount/CBS.

 

[Mudd]

I'd think no better of the way those people have behaved.

 

[KennyB]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I would watch it. Prelude did take a different approach and it was interesting, well done, and I had hoped to see the final product. It was only after the lawsuit was filed that I started reading up on everything. If he has spent the money on personal things and as a crutch for Propworx then I do hope he is held accountable. If he has NOT then I wish he would welcome an independent audit of the Axanar books to prove he is clean of the allegations. I enjoy most fan films, from the horrid to the great ones. I wish I had time and money to play "Trek". I think we all grew up pretending our living room was the bridge of a starship. It seems like great fun, and to be on the bridge set of a TOS Connie would be amazing. However, if you are "living the dream" by stealing from fans that are just as passionate but not wealthy enough to produce a fan film you are a very low form of life.

I have watched a few fan films progress from being cringe worthy to start with, to being high quality productions. I respect those guys a lot. They learned their craft and are better for it. Promising a professional quality film, then constantly begging for more cash, with only producing a few minutes of product over years kinda seems wrong too. I might not be so anti-Axanar if they had delivered an act or two by now.

 

[HIjol]

Re: this being an "Anti-Axanar Thread":

I would not say that it's NOT an Anti-Axanar thread-- simply because the naysayers who are on the side of Paramount/CBS have so few places in which to congregate given the amount of banning and deleting going on from the Axanar groups-- they have all inevitably found themselves here.

So while the term "anti-axanar" is not quite accurate (as we are, for the most part, simply talking facts and at least attempting to be unbiased, with some exceptions), it is worth pointing out that the bulk of this now-600 page thread has been discussion between fans who side with Paramount/CBS.

Hey, Albinator,

I am curious. You wrote about "sides" in your Post, and spoke of Posters who were on the "side of Paramount/CBS". To me, that implies another way to look at this situation. Is there? While no judgements have been laid down, it seems that there is some pretty compelling action and product that points to a violation or two, with regard to Copywriter and Trademark. Am I missing something, or reading you wrong? As I have a Posted twice, I really liked what I saw in the "trailer", and wanted more. While I have Posted some humor aimed at the "talking points" of Axanar, it is also clear to me that this is much more than the beginnings of a "Fan Film".

 

[Jay]

If Alec Peter's intransigence sinks other fan productions, then he needs to be run out of town. Time to change careers Alec.

WHAT CAREER?

 

[Albinator]

Hey, Albinator,

I am curious. You wrote about "sides" in your Post, and spoke of Posters who were on the "side of Paramount/CBS". To me, that implies another way to look at this situation. Is there? While no judgements have been laid down, it seems that there is some pretty compelling action and product that points to a violation or two, with regard to Copywriter and Trademark. Am I missing something, or reading you wrong? As I have a Posted twice, I really liked what I saw in the "trailer", and wanted more. While I have Posted some humor aimed at the "talking points" of Axanar, it is also clear to me that this is much more than the beginnings of a "Fan Film".

I am simply saying that at this point most fans have taken sides. There are those who believe that Axanar should be allowed to continue for whatever reason, and then there those who believe that CBS/Paramount are right to attempt a take down of Axanar.

The first group generally acknowledge that Axanar violates copyright; they simply think it's wrong to shut down the fan film because other fan-films have been ignored, and they believe CBS/Paramount is unfairly targeting them. The "why" is very much open for debate among this group: some think it's because Axanar is "too good", some thing they simply don't like Alec Peters, and some think they just don't like the film.

The second group believes that the Axanar team has violated many of the sacred but unwritten rules that fan-films need to follow to stay below the radar, such as creators drawing salary, licensing, and profiting from the fundraising. It's worth noting that many in the first group also acknowledge some of this, but simply discount its relevance.

I'm not trying to paint anyone as right or wrong, and I hope my explanation at least sounds like I TRIED to be unbiased in its description.

 

[jespah]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

This is so unlikely as to practically be a paradox. CBS/Paramount may very well settle (the vast, vast majority of lawsuits settle, despite what is shown on television). But it would not be in the direction of supporting a product which dilutes the purity, integrity, and quality (yeah, I said it) of their multi-billion dollar asset, the Star Trek IP.

.... Without delving into the "fan film politics" and issues with members of the team. How would you feel if Paramount changes their tune? Also how would you feel if Paramount, decided to start going after all fan productions.
...

Will they go after all fan productions? One of the things I have attempted to make clear (yes, @The_Grand_Nagus , I am the lawyer from the G & T Show ) is that the other productions should consider themselves to be on notice because of this suit.

I do not believe other productions will be targeted unless they cross a few bright lines, which are probably (I'm not in the plaintiffs' heads so I could be off-base here; this is what I see from my seat in the arena, coffee fans):

• Paying yourself a salary, no matter how small. Even being paid below minimum wage could be considered in play here.
• Referring to your work product as an independent Star Trek film rather than a fan film, and raising money based upon that appellation.
• The existence and use of the donor store, which commingles sales, and possibly also funds, with a for-profit corporation (Propworx). This raises questions as to when donor perks are converted to consideration-for-merchandise sales.
• Using Star Trek IP to raise capital for a for-profit business and/or ancillary items and real property, including the fixtures therein (e. g. lighting grids, electrical systems, and whatnot). These items are so far removed from the initial fundraising scheme as to raise donor questions with reference to what they are really paying for (e. g. studio or warehouse; it does not matter. Neither of those is a fan film).

The combined crowdfunding total, in excess of $1M, is of interest and probably drew the plaintiffs' initial attention but it is likely not the sole or main impetus behind this suit. Other productions raising comparable amounts should be cautioned, however, that the lens could, I feel, be turned toward them. So they'd best keep the other items in check, as I have listed them above.

YMMV.

 

[benjaminh]

jespah and Albinator seem to make some good points. What I'm hoping is that Axanar just crossed some lines, but that they'll allow other fan productions to go forward. I do like the bits of Axanar that have been released, and would like to see the rest of it.

Honestly I just wish the execs and lawyers at Paramount/CBS would watch Galaxy Quest, take a chill pill, and relax....But at this point that doesn't seem realistic.

Once the lawyers have been released on this production, what are the odds that others might be targeted?

 

[Jay]

jespah and Albinator seem to make some good points. What I'm hoping is that Axanar just crossed some lines, but that they'll allow other fan productions to go forward. I do like the bits of Axanar that have been released, and would like to see the rest of it.

Honestly I just wish the execs and lawyers at Paramount/CBS would watch Galaxy Quest, take a chill pill, and relax....But at this point that doesn't seem realistic.

Once the lawyers have been released on this production, what are the odds that others might be targeted?

I think it has little to do with the lawyers and more to do with how much trouble the other fan productions cause. They don't seem to make too much noise or be a big bother. Peters saw dollar signs and decided for some reason to taunt the IP holders with things like Best Star Trek Script Ever and "not a fan production" but and independent Star Trek film.

 

[Albinator]

• Paying yourself a salary, no matter how small. Even being paid below minimum wage could be considered in play here. .

This is key here, because even if he took a very VERY small salary, it creates a slippery slope if they allow it. How much is too much? How little is OK? Before you know it, you'd have every fan film creator drawing salaries, and more and more pushing the envelope to see how much they can get away with.

They crossed the line, and Paramount/CBS have to take action to make sure all other creators know: this is where you can't go.

 

[KennyB]

I don't think at any point making a "fan film" should be your full time job...........unless you are independently wealthy or retired from your career and have the free time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

Be disappointed. At this point, being sanctioned by CBS and Paramount doesn't undo the repeated lying and extremely unpleasant treatment of anyone who doesn't suck their proverbial cock. They don't deserve to make Star Trek.

 

[Reilly]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I know this is a largely anti Axanar thread, and I myself have mixed feelings about it. I am a supporter of many fan projects though, and still want to see this project, and others continue to be made. Without delving into the "fan film politics" and issues with members of the team. How would you feel if Paramount changes their tune? Also how would you feel if Paramount, decided to start going after all fan productions.



And another very important question if you have the time and logic.... Who would win in a footrace; A Klingon or a Vulcan???

I'd watch it. I backed the project as I liked the setup with the era and the four years war and I'd still like to see it can to be in some form or other. Heck, I'd be interested in seeing that Four Years War documentary they were filming the other week (although I don't think my pledge covers the Bluray package it's supposed to be a part of).

That said I can't see the film ever being completed at this stage. They had already expected to have to raise another 500-600k to film the second part and after all this, even with an agreement from CBS/P, I reckon they'd struggle to get anywhere near that with subsequent crowdfunding campaigns.

To be honest even without the lawsuit I think we were seeing the well drying up with the Indiegogo campaign.

 

[Earthrise]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I know this is a largely anti Axanar thread, and I myself have mixed feelings about it. I am a supporter of many fan projects though, and still want to see this project, and others continue to be made. Without delving into the "fan film politics" and issues with members of the team. How would you feel if Paramount changes their tune? Also how would you feel if Paramount, decided to start going after all fan productions.

And another very important question if you have the time and logic.... Who would win in a footrace; A Klingon or a Vulcan???

My position has always been that fan work creators should show absolute respect for the wishes of IP holders. If Paramount/CBS reversed position on Axanar then I would support that action. If Paramount/CBS decided tomorrow to shut down all fan works from film to fiction then I would support that action as well.

 

[Jay]

My position has always been that fan work creators should show absolute respect for the wishes of IP holders. If Paramount/CBS reversed position on Axanar then I would support that action. If Paramount/CBS decided tomorrow to shut down all fan works from film to fiction then I would support that action as well.

That was Alec Peters' position until he was sued.

 

[steam235]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I'd feel that they had years and hundreds of thousands of dollars, an entire year in a dedicated facility and they have been able to make a 3 minute video, they have no cast, and if they have finished sets, they must have finished them very recently. Given the best resources a fan film has ever had they haven't been able to pull it off, and it's time to cut their donor's loses.

 

[RedForman]

A theoretical question for posters: What will you do if Paramount/CBS settles the lawsuit, and gave support towards the production of Axanar? Either by just allowing the project to continue, or actually getting involved with the project, and releasing it as a sanctioned project.

I know this is a largely anti Axanar thread, and I myself have mixed feelings about it. I am a supporter of many fan projects though, and still want to see this project, and others continue to be made. Without delving into the "fan film politics" and issues with members of the team. How would you feel if Paramount changes their tune? Also how would you feel if Paramount, decided to start going after all fan productions.



And another very important question if you have the time and logic.... Who would win in a footrace; A Klingon or a Vulcan???

In the beginning, I thought it a neat concept. The longer time drug on, combined with the lack of progress made me a bit suspicious and that's where I started questioning things.

Now, that combined with the behavior of Lord Alec and his croneys has completely soured me on it - it's nothing more than grossly over-polished fan wank.