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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Michael Hinman said:
Fair Use is an amazing doctrine in law. And while it is great that your referenced things like Salinger's letters, please look up what happened as a result, so that you can stay accurate in what is happening in the here and now. :)
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Do remember that if you cite Fair Use as your defense, you are admitting that you are violating someone else's copyrights and, if challenged, you may have to defend your reasons for violating those copyrights in court.

You may well be right. One might prevail on Fair Use grounds in a court of law, and the copyright situation of the script is certainly muddled because it's based on someone else's properties. However, given Alec Peters' propensity for legal pomposity, do you really want to take that risk?

That's what I was trying to say.
 
Maurice said:
If one of the leaks is an early draft written by Alec himself I guarantee you it will be mediocre at best, and more likely bad. And that's not a slam against Alec per se but screenwriting is HARD and I've never seen a beginners' first script that was any damned good (including my own), especially not a beginner without a lot of experience writing narrative.

A lot of my predictions apply to most fanfilms, and everything said about the Axanar story to date gives me no confidence that any early drafts of the scripts didn't warp headlong into the Briar Patch (as in Uncle Remus, not Insurrection] that is name checking dot-connecting Admiral Skyping "shields at fuckit %" pew pew pew lame banterland that is endemic in Trek fanfilm making.
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Don't know if anyone else has posted this, but if this Reddit post is anything to go by, you're pretty much on the money.

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/48dv1q/i_have_the_axanar_script_heres_my_review/
 
Allyn Gibson said:
The J.D. Salinger case over his letters would be on-point. He asserted his copyrights over their contents and was able to force a rewrite of a biography based on them to remove any direct quotes.

An article that quoted from the script might be able to survive a copyright infringement claim on Fair Use grounds, but again, it would be a nuisance.
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The Salinger case isn't really on point. Salinger v. Random House is a 1987 case in which a circuit court found Salinger could control the manner in which his letters were to be published, including the right of a third party to publish extracts or close paraphrases of the work under fair use. Trouble with your citation, Allyn, is that Congress specifically amended the Copyright Act in 1992 in response to the Salinger decision because of the decision's impact on scholarship, thereby explicitly allowing for fair use in copying unpublished works. Sorry.
 
carlosp said:
The Salinger case isn't really on point. Salinger v. Random House is a 1987 case in which a circuit court found Salinger could control the manner in which his letters were to be published, including the right of a third party to publish extracts or close paraphrases of the work under fair use. Trouble with your citation, Allyn, is that Congress specifically amended the Copyright Act in 1992 in response to the Salinger decision because of the decision's impact on scholarship, thereby explicitly allowing for fair use in copying unpublished works. Sorry.
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What was I thinking, saying anything at all? Tell me, Carlos, what was I thinking? Especially since, if you read anything else I've written in this thread, it's pretty clear where I stand -- and it's not with Alec Bloody Peters.
 
Allyn Gibson said:
Do remember that if you cite Fair Use as your defense, you are admitting that you are violating someone else's copyrights and, if challenged, you may have to defend your reasons for violating those copyrights in court.

You may well be right. One might prevail on Fair Use grounds in a court of law, and the copyright situation of the script is certainly muddled because it's based on someone else's properties. However, given Alec Peters' propensity for legal pomposity, do you really want to take that risk?

That's what I was trying to say.
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What you're describing, though, is called a "chilling effect" on free speech, especially in the areas of journalism and scholarship, both of which are resoundingly protected by the First Amendment and case law. The law describing commentary, critique and scholarship of copyrighted works as "fair use" specifically means that speech that falls under these categories are explicitly NOT infringement. Sure, anyone can sue anybody for anything, but the precedents surrounding this type of fair use are pretty strong, especially since the type of speech they embody is the exact type the First Amendment was created to protect.
 
Allyn Gibson said:
What was I thinking, saying anything at all? Tell me, Carlos, what was I thinking? Especially since, if you read anything else I've written in this thread, it's pretty clear where I stand -- and it's not with Alec Bloody Peters.
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You know what? Fair point, Allyn. We're probably piling on a bit more than you deserve, so for that, I apologize. Michael and I are both journalists and the "chilling effect" issue is a bit of a hot button for journalists, so we often retort reflexively when someone says we shouldn't do something we're perfectly allowed to do under the First Amendment just because we might be sued... it raises the hackles.

I'm content with leaving the issue where it stands now. Have a good evening :)
 
Allyn Gibson said:
What was I thinking, saying anything at all? Tell me, Carlos, what was I thinking? Especially since, if you read anything else I've written in this thread, it's pretty clear where I stand -- and it's not with Alec Bloody Peters.
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OK, that was good, I especially like the "Alec Bloody Peters". Now we need a chorus so we can get the dancing girls out. We probably can't get the Lady Lawyers in Patches, because they are busy lawyering, but a rousing chorus would help me out since I can't actually write a musical myself. But that needn't stop the fundraising!

Michael and I are both journalists and the "chilling effect" issue is a bit of a hot button for journalists, so we often retort reflexively when someone says we shouldn't do something we're perfectly allowed to do under the First Amendment just because we might be sued... it raises the hackles.
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(take breath)

Chorus: The hackles the hackles!
 
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Dennis said:
Well, in any event here's a review of it:lol:
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/48dv1q/i_have_the_axanar_script_heres_my_review/
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sigh

time for something better

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https://archive.org/details/DementoStarTrekParodies
 
Lyricist needed. Volunteer position.
Musicians needed. Work for exposure!
Publicity team sought. Will pay in sushi & premieres.
[ 47+ items to come.]
 
carlosp said:
You know what? Fair point, Allyn. We're probably piling on a bit more than you deserve, so for that, I apologize.
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Apology accepted.

carlosp said:
Michael and I are both journalists and the "chilling effect" issue is a bit of a hot button for journalists, so we often retort reflexively when someone says we shouldn't do something we're perfectly allowed to do under the First Amendment just because we might be sued... it raises the hackles.
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I'm a journalist, too. At least, I approach my work as a news and marketing writer in the comic book industry with a journalist's eye, I usually refer to myself as a "comic book journalist" in public venues, and I actually use the NPR Code of Ethics as my guide. I didn't go to j-school; my degree's in history.

I agree with you that people can quote from the script, if they want, and 99% of the time it will be fine. But the William Morrow/Godzilla case and the The Joy of Trek case are the 1% of the time where courts decided otherwise. Peters strikes me as the person who would want to be part of that 1 percent. I see the public interest in talking about the script. I also see the nuisance that Peters could be. Personally, I lean toward caution, but I know that others would weigh that calculus differently.

carlosp said:
I'm content with leaving the issue where it stands now. Have a good evening
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Fair enough. You too. :)
 
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