CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[SuperSpaceMan]

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.
Second, some of the things you claim, I did not know about. If it was said upstream, it was said within posts that to me were just attacking and attacking. You're right about the money. The only reason the money could be used to build an office and the rest is if Axanar is planned to be like STPII or STC, an ongoing series. Then it would be beneficial to have all this infrastructure in place. STPII has their studio in NY. They don't rent a building, build the sets, film an episode and tear it down. In Axanar's case, it would be even better for their position if they let other Fan Films use their facilities and only charge them for utilities for the time they are filming. IF they offer post production work for OTHER Fan Films, then there is no reason they can't charge them. One, the Fan Film does not have to contract for that and two, the people working on someone else's FF should be compensated for their time.

NV has a studio in upstate NY, Continues in GA.... Neither are in the 30 Mile inclusion zone of Hollywood..

ON more than one occasion, the producers of Axanar, have said, that they are planning on using Ares Studios to make for profit, commercial films. They even cited a David (I have no dog in this fight) Gerrold work as something they have secured the rights to to make (Which David Gerrold has since denied). This means, they took money, that was donated to them, through a fundraiser, that used ALL sorts of Star Trek IP, and used it to build infrastructure they later plan to use for, for profit, commercial work.

This is beyond just fan film work (Ala Starbase Studios in Oklahoma) they are building a professional soundstage with the plans of creating some sort of digital media empire (From their podcast)

ROB: “I can see that we might have our own [...] internet satellite streaming channel that will come all over the world and it’ll all come back here to Ares Studios and we can custom design entertainment in ten years. People will come up with ideas the same way that Amazon is having a bake-off with their pilots--they’ll make pilots and depending on feedback, they’ll go and make a series out of something. Well they’re going to have their own...they have their own distribution network already in place. If you want to watch an Amazon Original, you go to Amazon and watch it via streaming. I could see us having ten channels in the future of not just Star Trek programming but all kinds of programming that we’re going to create. You and I are working on a project with David Gerrold that would be perfect for this.

ALEC: “Absolutely”

ROB: “And it would be going directly to Ares Studios subscribers or Axanar subscribers. We might have a fan base worldwide of 50 million people that are all donating, you know, five bucks or 9.95 a month to get what we’re producing which is sort of what we want to do. I mean, if you’re thinking about in the long run, we want to produce programming and entertainment whether it’s movies or shows or podcasts like this one that are specifically targeted to the fan. The discerning fan, who has a wide breadth of knowledge on many different subjects that we’re trying to touch on.

ALEC: “Yeah, I mean why do we not have SyFy Channel turned on constantly all day long. Shouldn’t we? I mean I...listen...I did ten years ago or whenever it was the Irwin Allen channel...I mean, it was on all the time because I love that stuff. But nowadays there’s such dreck on SyFy Channel. They’ve really gotten rid of all the shows that we really want to watch. The ‘Battlestar Galacticas’. And now they’re like ‘maybe we were wrong about that. Maybe we need to come back...’ Yeah, you do! And because there’s no one place for...what a phenomenal genre. How big is science fiction? There’s great science fiction movies that come out and get enormous audiences. But there’s no one place where you can go in and go, ‘I’ll just turn this on and leave it on all day long’ because after Star Trek, they’ve got Battlestar Galactica and then Lost in Space and then they’ve got you name it. Yeah, so, I think we’re all in the same place and talking to fans who have become really good friends of mine through Axanar, they all want the same thing.

 

[Albinator]

For the record, the reason I and many others are so aggressive in our support of CBS is -- at least for me-- because of the arrogance and childish behavior of Axanar and its supporters. They act as if Star Trek is THEIRS and it's THEIR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT to do anything they want with someone else's copyrighted material.

We can go on and on about what's morally right or wrong, but copyright infringement is against the law. If Paramount/CBS want to target just ONE project it's their right to do so, for any reason at all.

This is the risk every fan film takes.

The difference is that if Continues, Renegades or New Voyages were served with papers, i'm willing to bet that they'd immediately back down, say they're sorry, and try to work with CBS to accomodate them with any necessary clean-up or damages.

What they WOULD NOT do is defy a court order, refuse to acknowledge they'd done anything wrong, act as if CBS enforcing their copyright is a crime, and tell their followers that everything is just fine and dandy.

 

[Lior .B.]

Exactly. When doing fan film you need to be on good terms with the holders and work according to thier rules and if they tell you to stop you just stop.

 

[BillJ]

At the end of the day, the rub for me is that Alec Peters put building his media empire above doing the job he was contracted to do.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Well according to one tale going round, most fan works are shutting down because of this lawsuit

Happily, the dutch one and Star Trek: Aurora are still in production. In fact, I was talking to one of the dutch guys only this morning

 

[Ion]

Well according to one tale going round, most fan works are shutting down because of this lawsuit

I keep hearing this third-hand here. Where is this tale going around?

 

[Albinator]

Well according to one tale going round, most fan works are shutting down because of this lawsuit

If there is any truth to this rumored info, I'm not sure it is because of anyone contacting them telling them to stop as some are speculating.

Given this lawsuit, i'd put all productions on hold too if I were working on any-- at least until it's resolved and any info on what exactly prompted the suit against Axanar came out.

Because for most people a million-dollar lawsuit can be pretty intimidating, and not worth risking.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I keep hearing this third-hand here. Where is this tale going around?

Alec posted it on his blog, but soon deleted it... Star Trek Phoenix posted

Update on Star Trek: Axanar (01.19.16)

The filming & production for Axanar has been postponed to February/March pending the outcome of the lawsuit filing. Filming was scheduling to begin this week and it seems many fan productions, including Star Trek: Phoenix, have ceased operations, due to this violative situation.

Let's continue to hope this dispute is resolved amicably and respectively for all involved. ‪#‎LLAP‬

 

[USS Intrepid]

Well according to one tale going round, most fan works are shutting down because of this lawsuit

Happily, the dutch one and Star Trek: Aurora are still in production. In fact, I was talking to one of the dutch guys only this morning

I can assure you that my production has had zero contact from the Studio. I can't speak for anyone else.

Should the studio contact me and ask us to desist, we would of course comply.

 

[starburst]

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.
Second, some of the things you claim, I did not know about. If it was said upstream, it was said within posts that to me were just attacking and attacking. You're right about the money. The only reason the money could be used to build an office and the rest is if Axanar is planned to be like STPII or STC, an ongoing series. Then it would be beneficial to have all this infrastructure in place. STPII has their studio in NY. They don't rent a building, build the sets, film an episode and tear it down. In Axanar's case, it would be even better for their position if they let other Fan Films use their facilities and only charge them for utilities for the time they are filming. IF they offer post production work for OTHER Fan Films, then there is no reason they can't charge them. One, the Fan Film does not have to contract for that and two, the people working on someone else's FF should be compensated for their time.

Don't take this the wrong way, but as someone who hasn't donated financially to Axanar but who has spent a great many hours talking to friends, family and strangers on the street (ok Internet, I ain't that crazy) the whole "us v them" / "donors v non donors" thing is getting a little old. There is much more to helping and supporting fan projects than if you can afford to contribute financially and I have noticed since the closing hours of 2015 the language has shifted from talking about "the fans" which has always seemed to be aimed at Star Trek fans in general to only Axanar Donors count.

There is also the repeated point that Axanar donors aren't the ones complaining, but many times I have read people who say they have donated $15, $50, $75 or more (and some that value multiple times) to get this made and now they are unhappy. It may have been true once but these donors have been cropping up airing their frustration with how this has been handled, how the money has been spent and on mistakes made by Axanar to be either ignored or banned from the Axanar groups.

Now I'm not a hater, I have been interested in this project since I heard of it despite never being in a position to donate to the project which is something I would have gotten to at some point down the road, I instead engage in these sorts of topics and talk with people on both sides of the Neutral Zone (so to speak) as I have a genuine interest in what is going on here, how it will effect to chances of seeing a film with an interesting story and great ship designs etc etc as well as possible wider repercussions on the Star Trek fanbase.

Personally, and even though the general consensus is to the otherwise, I prefer to think that the issues with the coffee etc were unintentional, the desire to set up a for profit studio based on funds procured using CBS IP is obviously a potential issue but they have been saying that for months in the podcasts so you would have thought that would have flagged up with CBS at the time. I am trying not to comment on speculation about motives though as thats one for the lawyers.

There are haters and trolls on both sides with insults, personal attacks and threats (which hopefully no one will cross the line of it being a threat) all of which needs to stop as those of us who either care for Axanar, don't care for Axanar or care for both are genuinely getting fed up hearing about.

To close, #istandwithstartrek and the fans so from one fan to another I hope you get what I have been trying to ramble on and say

 

[urbandefault]

 

[muCephi]

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.

Being respectful of your right to work through things as you wish, I'd still like to suggest that you not discount information just because it comes from non-donors. That concept was suggested to you as a way to reduce your ability to look everywhere for information. It doesn't serve you, or anyone. Give weight to concrete information wherever you see it, verify it by tracing back its sources.

This is beyond just fan film work (Ala Starbase Studios in Oklahoma) they are building a professional soundstage with the plans of creating some sort of digital media empire (From their podcast)

Again speaking to Photoman15, go back and look at the quote in superspaceman's post. This is what really turned the corner on this for me, aside from the constant claims that CBS has 'abandoned' Trek IP rights because they won't make 'what the fans want'.

Microdistribution of content is a key part of the present and the future of entertainment media. This studio team could have gotten together a team skilled in such things, figured out a business plan, and got investment from normal channels. But instead, they hijacked the crowdfunding mechanism, selling the allure of Trek (which was not theirs to sell) and the goal of making a fan film, and putting their enormous business goals in an asterick as far as most fans are likely concerned. You can test this assertion by asking yourself how many backers would still be supporting the effort if it had never been Trek.

 

[jespah]

Well according to one tale going round, most fan works are shutting down because of this lawsuit

Happily, the dutch one and Star Trek: Aurora are still in production. In fact, I was talking to one of the dutch guys only this morning

No word on Twitter of anything shutting down. Continues has tweet/pic (also posted to Facebook) from 14 hours ago (for example). Renegades just launched a new blog.

 

[Albinator]

Should the studio contact me and ask us to desist, we would of course comply.

And there's another BIG difference between Axanar and other productions. Willingness to comply with CBS/Paramount's concerns. The company publicly spoke in August that they were "looking into legal options"... why didn't Axanar reach out and come to some out-of-court resolution, rather than going full-steam ahead and running ANOTHER crowdfunding campaign?

I have noticed since the closing hours of 2015 the language has shifted from talking about "the fans" which has always seemed to be aimed at Star Trek fans in general to only Axanar Donors count.

And soon I wonder if only donors who backed with more than $100 will count. Will people who spent "only" $15 dollars have their opinions muted?

 

[ihno]

Wow, filming postponed till February? That's in 10 days. They seem to expect a result (in their favour) fast.

 

[Mudd]

I know CBS is the owner...

Well, then - we're done here.

 

[muCephi]

Hint: It does. It's called precedence.

If you don't protect your patent, and set a precedent of allowing others to infringe, I understand you can lose rights. However, my understanding is that 'precedence' is not a factor with copyright. You can pick and choose to respond or not, you don't have to create a paper trail of licensing each and every user. Could you imagine if every 'fair use' quote in the news had to be licensed?

So the idea that the history of picking and choosing that CBS has followed establishes legal protection for Axanar is just not sound. Its not backed up by actual law *or* case law precedents as far as I have been able to see in my non-legal capacity.

 

[Ion]

If you don't protect your patent, and set a precedent of allowing others to infringe, I understand you can lose rights. However, my understanding is that 'precedence' is not a factor with copyright. You can pick and choose to respond or not, you don't have to create a paper trail of licensing each and every user. Could you imagine if every 'fair use' quote in the news had to be licensed?

So the idea that the history of picking and choosing that CBS has followed establishes legal protection for Axanar is just not sound. Its not backed up by actual law *or* case law precedents as far as I have been able to see in my non-legal capacity.

This.

The only thing I would guess it could influence would be the magnitude of the awarded damages, but even then... I'm not so sure.

 

[Albinator]

No word on Twitter of anything shutting down. Continues has tweet/pic (also posted to Facebook) from 14 hours ago (for example). Renegades just launched a new blog.

The fact that NV released a new episodes 3 weeks after the lawsuit was announced, and a week later there is no sign of legal action is a good sign.

 

[Albinator]

This.

The only thing I would guess it could influence would be the magnitude of the awarded damages, but even then... I'm not so sure.

With copyright it is at the holder's SOLE discretion. I'm no lawyer (Maurice?) but i don't imagine a judge would say "well, Axanar's right.. you didn't yell at Renegades, so... you can proceed."

I've worked with IP enforcement before (on much smaller scale), and that's never happened in my experience. No matter how many times people would cry "but you didn't stop THAT guy!" it didn't matter-- they got shut down.

And I can't imagine it will matter hear.