CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Ion]

I call bullshit on the threats for starters.

I doubt @oswriter has so little to do with this life that he'd bother making it up. If he just didn't want to post, he wouldn't. Again, that's an issue for the authorities; someone left the line far behind them.

Second, I don't understand the arrogance of the anti-Axanar people here.
People have been making Trek fan films for years with no problem. They get funding or do it themselves.
Everyone who contributed (to whatever website fundraising thing they used) knew what they were getting into.

Yup, and a lot of them are pissed off that it's not turning out the way it should have.

As for the big "scandal" of the carpet. IT'S A FRIGGIN OFFICE. You don't walk around on plywood especially if you have actors (known and unknown) coming to meet there. Let Axanar live or die by it's final product, not by BBS trolls who think they know how everything "should" be done.

Yes, it's a "friggin office". It's also a frigging office that is, by any sane measure, a completely frivolous expense. Had I seen more than three minutes of footage coming out of post-Prelude Axanar, I might not be so critical of it, but it seems that a three-minute scene is all they've managed to actually shoot.

And now we hear they don't have a cast? Yeah, If you're buying their bullshit, I've got a couple of nice bridges around here somewhere...

DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with Axanar or any other fan film other than being a viewer and a Trek fan since 1966.

Funny. Neither do I.

What I do have is a desire to possibly make a fan film at some point in the future, and the Axanar crew's general actions and attitude threaten that possible future. They're risking bringing CBS/Paramount down on all fan films, and that's not cool.

That, I think, is why many of us here "troll". And if the Axanar folk don't like that, then they aren't required to read our little corner of the Internet.

 

[JoeZhang]

I know CBS is the owner, but they let everyone do these fan films for years.

Axanar isn't a fan film - it's a professional production in their own words. 'Other people do stuff' isn't a legal defense in any sense.

Why are they picking on one all of a sudden? Is it the fundraising?

The fundraising, the selling of models, the production of soundtracks, the profiting off axanar branded coffee, the plans to make a whole series of star trek themed films.

From what I read here, they knew about it. They did nothing to stop it when it was starting.

From last august:

“CBS has not authorized, sanctioned or licensed this project in any way, and this has been communicated to those involved,” a representative from the network told TheWrap. “We continue to object to professional commercial ventures trading off our property rights and are considering further options to protect these rights.”

Now, it would be a logistic nightmare to clean up.

It's actually fairly simple to 'clean up' - they sue Axanar out of existence.

 

[steam235]

There is still a big difference between Axanar and other fan films.

 

[Indysolo]

PACERmonitor shows no activity yesterday.

There are two possibilities: they are unable to respond, they are unwilling to respond.

Neil

 

[BillJ]

I bet she's not smiling after she's named a Jane Doe and is reamed by CBS.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-jan-19th-2016/

 

[Albinator]

Why are they picking on one all of a sudden?

Why does that matter? "Well JIMMY was doing it too!" doesn't work with your parents when you're little, so why should it work in court? Hint: it doesn't.

Is it the fundraising?

Possibly. It could also be the salary's the owners are taking, the commerce they're engaged in, the licensed merchandise, the fact that it no longer looks like a fan-film, statements made by the creators about how it's "not a fan-film", or any number of violations that other fan films were not committing.

Now, it would be a logistic nightmare to clean up.

Then maybe Axanar should have thought about that before violating CBS' very generous guidelines for fan-films. Right now i'm willing to believe that they just went too far without any malice aforethought, and simply found themselves in over their heads. If that's the case, it surely sucks, and I would feel bad for them and the donors, but the right thing to do is to stop production and do what is needed to "clean it up" properly. If the creators were contrite and apologetic, i'm sure CBS would be willing to work with them.

 

[Photoman15]

Actually, if you read the Wrap Article from August, and Peters own statement released from the Axanar Website, CBS Expressed concern about the project back at STLV.

As far as what's different about Axanar, vs. Other Fan Productions...

Other fan productions were by and large built with monies from the producers (Not sure about Renegades, on that one). The production Teams of NV, and ST:C have sunk far more money into the projects than they have expensed out. No one from NV, ST:C, Renegades, or any other Fan film that I am aware of, paid their principle producer a full time salary. When you pay someone to produce your fan film, it ceases being a fan film and becomes a professional production.

No other fan film that I am aware of has as "Donor Store" No other fan film that I am aware of, has announced plans to take the facilities created, the infrastructure created, using Fan donations and parley them into an Independent for profit Production venture....

I donated to Axanar to make a fan film, not to make Ares Studios. And Every time, the Production spends $1.01, for something that has long term (Post axanar) benefit, as opposed to just spending $1.00 to make the film, they are being poor stewards of donated dollars. Every dollar spent, on something not directly tied to making Axanar, is another dollar that will need to be raise to complete this film.

As far as the Carpet, it's just another example, of putting the cart before the horse. A fan film doesn't need expansive new offices. They just don't. Although an independent film studio might.... a Prop Auction business might.

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.
Second, some of the things you claim, I did not know about. If it was said upstream, it was said within posts that to me were just attacking and attacking. You're right about the money. The only reason the money could be used to build an office and the rest is if Axanar is planned to be like STPII or STC, an ongoing series. Then it would be beneficial to have all this infrastructure in place. STPII has their studio in NY. They don't rent a building, build the sets, film an episode and tear it down. In Axanar's case, it would be even better for their position if they let other Fan Films use their facilities and only charge them for utilities for the time they are filming. IF they offer post production work for OTHER Fan Films, then there is no reason they can't charge them. One, the Fan Film does not have to contract for that and two, the people working on someone else's FF should be compensated for their time.

 

[BillJ]

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.
Second, some of the things you claim, I did not know about. If it was said upstream, it was said within posts that to me were just attacking and attacking. You're right about the money. The only reason the money could be used to build an office and the rest is if Axanar is planned to be like STPII or STC, an ongoing series. Then it would be beneficial to have all this infrastructure in place. STPII has their studio in NY. They don't rent a building, build the sets, film an episode and tear it down. In Axanar's case, it would be even better for their position if they let other Fan Films use their facilities and only charge them for utilities for the time they are filming. IF they offer post production work for OTHER Fan Films, then there is no reason they can't charge them. One, the Fan Film does not have to contract for that and two, the people working on someone else's FF should be compensated for their time.

They've collected $1.2 million dollars and have produced three minutes of footage. I don't think things like the office and carpeting would've irked people if they had made the movie then used leftover funds to make improvements. Even with that $1.2 million, they say they don't have enough money to make the film. So why are they spending money on things other than the film?

 

[Photoman15]

Why does that matter? "Well JIMMY was doing it too!" doesn't work with your parents when you're little, so why should it work in court? Hint: it doesn't.

Hint: It does. It's called precedence.

Possibly. It could also be the salary's the owners are taking, the commerce they're engaged in, the licensed merchandise, the fact that it no longer looks like a fan-film, statements made by the creators about how it's "not a fan-film", or any number of violations that other fan films were not committing.

I agree about the salary. How it looks is irrelevant. With current technology, MANY people can make broadcast quality videos. What other violations?

Then maybe Axanar should have thought about that before violating CBS' very generous guidelines for fan-films.

Do you have a copy of the "very generous guidelines" CBS has for fan-films? I really would like to see that. Copy & Paste or a link would be fine. Thank you.

 

[steam235]

Let's remember that this is how it was for the last tenants

Sems perfectly fine to run an office out of that second floor. .

But come one we're being trolled by Axanar now. Why else would the post a blog about buying Ikea Furniture right after they caught crap about new carpet.

Plus Photoman is trolling bring up all the old complaints and then throwing around things like

Okay, first, as a donor, I take your post with much more weight than most others.

 

[jespah]

Skip, I only wish you the best. Do what you need to do.

To whoever is responsible? Perhaps you've heard of Peter Zenger. This kind of nonsense has gone on for centuries.

It's still wrong.

 

[BillJ]

They've collected $1.2 million dollars and have produced three minutes of footage. I don't think things like the office and carpeting would've irked people if they had made the movie then used leftover funds to make improvements. Even with that $1.2 million, they say they don't have enough money to make the film. So why are they spending money on things other than the film?

That and he's running his auction business out of a building paid for by donors.

 

[urbandefault]

I know CBS is the owner, but they let everyone do these fan films for years. Why are they picking on one all of a sudden? Is it the fundraising? From what I read here, they knew about it. They did nothing to stop it when it was starting. Now, it would be a logistic nightmare to clean up.

It might be a nightmare to clean up, but not for CBS/Paramount.

 

[Photoman15]

They've collected $1.2 million dollars and have produced three minutes of footage. I don't think things like the office and carpeting would've irked people if they had made the movie then used leftover funds to make improvements. Even with that $1.2 million, they say they don't have enough money to make the film. So why are they spending money on things other than the film?

It looks like they produced 21 minutes, not 3 that you're claiming (Prelude to Axanar).
I'd like to see the funding offering they put up. What was said was to be done, etc...

The only thing I can see CBS should be pissed at is the "Axanar" merchandise they've created. That should not be allowed.

 

[Photoman15]

That and he's running his auction business out of a building paid for by donors.

Again, if the office is there and he is there and it's not interfering with the production of Axanar, so what? A lot of people do their personal stuff during downtime at work. Right or wrong, it's done. Plus he (Alec?) doesn't have to go to another office or home to do this auction stuff so he's there when needed for Axanar.

 

[Firebird]

It looks like they produced 21 minutes, not 3 that you're claiming (Prelude to Axanar).
I'd like to see the funding offering they put up. What was said was to be done, etc...

The only thing I can see CBS should be pissed at is the "Axanar" merchandise they've created. That should not be allowed.

IIRC, the $1.2 million has been for production costs of the Axanar movie, not Prelude to Axanar.

 

[dahj]

It looks like they produced 21 minutes, not 3 that you're claiming (Prelude to Axanar).

The $100k first Kickstarter produced the 21 minutes of Prelude to Axanar.
The $600k second one produced the 3 minute Vulcan scene.

The only thing I can see CBS should be pissed at is the "Axanar" merchandise they've created. That should not be allowed.

They're pissed he was using their IP to set up his own for profit business.
That's the difference.

 

[BillJ]

It looks like they produced 21 minutes, not 3 that you're claiming (Prelude to Axanar).
I'd like to see the funding offering they put up. What was said was to be done, etc...

The only thing I can see CBS should be pissed at is the "Axanar" merchandise they've created. That should not be allowed.

He's produced three minutes of footage for $1.2 million. "Prelude..." was funded on a separate Kickstarter.

 

[JoeZhang]

Hint: It does. It's called precedence.

.

OK - so which particularly piece of case law has set this precedence that would allow an axanar win? No waffle or evasion - name the case or cases.

 

[Albinator]

Hint: It does. It's called precedence.

That's not how precedence works.

Do you have a copy of the "very generous guidelines" CBS has for fan-films? I really would like to see that. Copy & Paste or a link would be fine. Thank you.

Yes, the list has been posted in this very thread several times, by those who were given them. I'm not going to spend an hour hunting them down though, but suffice to say, if you're going to do a fan-film, they should do that research.

Among those rules though are: the creators can not make any money, and the owners cannot sell copies of the film, both things they have done. Using them as "rewards" in a kickstarter counts as commerce/selling where the law is concerned, by the way.

As the Axanar team is close with Paramount, i have to think they knew these rules, but for the time being i'm willing to believe they just weren't aware and innocently broke the rules when funding went wild and they found themselves with more money than they knew what to do with. But ignorance is no excuse, particularly when it relates to the law. Maybe the right thing to do would have been to refund the excess donor money they didn't need.

My advice to Axanar now? Be contrite, take your lumps, say you're sorry, refund donor money and move on.