CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Earthrise]

An excerpt from Indiegogo's Terms of Service:

I have obtained licenses substantially similar to the foregoing from all individuals who created any uploaded images, videos or other content or whose names or likenesses appear in any images, videos or other conent uploaded to this form."Content" means all material and information supplied in this form, including my name, photographs, audio and video recordings, logos, artwork, and text.

source

Are they still liable?

It's a good question. If they aren't, THEY are the big scammers in this. Axanar will burn, lose all of it's money, while Indiegogo and Kickstarter get to keep their fees? Wow.

That doesn't seem right.

But, even with that in their terms of service, if they KNOW someone doesn't really have permission to use the IP, are they still covered? They had to know that Axanar didn't really have permission--it was IN the funding risks....

Your point is the reason why I'm really soured on crowdfunding platforms. The way the Terms of Service is worded, it makes me think that Indiegogo's defense would be, "the campaign owner represented to us that he had the license and we trust our campaign owners to be honest. With X number of new campaigns added to our site every day, it would be impractical to check each individually."

Essentially they are billing themselves as merely being the infrastructure for projects to meet donors, but they aren't taking responsibility for anything that happens there. They say it's the donor's responsibility to check the projects. It's the project's responsibility to be honest with donors and fulfill their obligations. What's the platform's responsibility if one side or the other has a problem? Sit back and collect their check.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Meanwhile, Axanar's Indiegogo is to 574k, 2k more than the last time I looked a couple days ago. People just love to throw there money away on a project that will never get done.

That is unbelievable. Even if I was a supporter and wanted to donate, I still wouldn't put a single $ into Axanar until I knew for a fact it was going to continue.
I thought when I was looking at Kickstarter a few months back it said that money wouldn't actually be taken out of you're account until the campaign was over, did I misunderstand that? Was it just once the goal was met?

That's true for Kickstarter, but IndieGoGo apparently allows ongoing campaigns.

Yep, unless it's an ongoing campaign, Kickstarter will take your money when the campaign is over and if the goal is met. (Though, there are some flex campaigns on Kickstarter that will take the money once the campaign is over regardless of goals being met.)

 

[Zaminhon]

An excerpt from Indiegogo's Terms of Service:

I have obtained licenses substantially similar to the foregoing from all individuals who created any uploaded images, videos or other content or whose names or likenesses appear in any images, videos or other conent uploaded to this form."Content" means all material and information supplied in this form, including my name, photographs, audio and video recordings, logos, artwork, and text.

source

Are they still liable?

It's a good question. If they aren't, THEY are the big scammers in this. Axanar will burn, lose all of it's money, while Indiegogo and Kickstarter get to keep their fees? Wow.

That doesn't seem right.

But, even with that in their terms of service, if they KNOW someone doesn't really have permission to use the IP, are they still covered? They had to know that Axanar didn't really have permission--it was IN the funding risks....

Maybe it's a semi-automated system like Youtube. Does each campaign get looked at in detail? Perhaps they are relying on their TOS as a catch all?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Maybe it's a semi-automated system like Youtube. Does each campaign get looked at in detail? Perhaps they are relying on their TOS as a catch all?

I would imagine it has to be somewhat automated. But, still, when a lawsuit happens...

I guess, really, their TOS haven't been tested in the courts... as far as I know... Has there been another copyright lawsuit where the funds came from a crowdfunding source?

 

[Ion]

Maybe it's a semi-automated system like Youtube. Does each campaign get looked at in detail? Perhaps they are relying on their TOS as a catch all?

Don't know about the general case, but it's been said that they actively pursued the Axanar campaign, and if true, they have to be aware of the issues (either that or they're the bigger idiots ).

Since Tom has outright stated that IndieGoGo approached Renegades, I have little doubt that they pursued Axanar.

 

[Tom]

It gets looked at by people that work there, As i mentioned before Indiegogo aggressively goes after you if they think your using Kickstarter. Also, Alec mentioned he negotiated for a better rate with Indiegogo, He had been communicating with someone there.

When we had campaigns at both KS and Indie we had a person that we dealt with at each place to help us get everything set.

 

[Karzak]

It just gets better, guys.

Alec Peters is going to sue Don Hillenbrand.

I'M GETTING SUED BY ALEC PETERS OF STAR TREK: AXANAR. I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!

Alec Peters, the leader of the vanity film project Star Trek: Axanar, is not pleased with my recent story regarding said project (found HERE). To that end, he has sent me a message through an intermediary. Here's that message in its entirety:

"BTW you can tell him I am now going to hire a lawyer and sue him. I am making enough money now to throw away $50,000 on a law suit. Is he?"

So am I supposed to piss my pants now or something? I'm not sure of the protocol when being threatened by a bufoon. Apparently I'm being sued by Mr. Peters and can expect the papers to arrive at my doorstep any day. Since Mr. Peters has a history of suing his detractors, this is not exactly unexpected. Of course, since he doesn't have a history of actually winning, it is also not something I intend to worry about. Here's why.

Defamation (which I assume is the nature of the suit) must prove a statement is false and injurious. Someone cannot be sued for an opinion (Mr. Peters lost his last case because he apparently didn't know this – maybe he didn't show up the day they taught "law" in law school). Only statements of fact, like "Alec Peters is a liar" could be used. Could I be successfully sued for such a statement? Only if it was untrue. If I could not prove such a statement, I would indeed be in trouble. But of course, I would never make such statements without documented, incontrovertible proof.

I've documented any number of lies from Mr. Peters, but here's my favorite (he's talking about me, after all):

“This guy is BAD news and some of you have told me of deals that were less than satisfactory.”

Now this is the kind of thing on which a lawsuit could be based. This statement cannot be proven because the claim is fictitious. A blatant lie and not a very good one. I don't think that even Mr. Peters' most loyal sycophants would be up to perjuring themselves in court on his behalf. Ergo, it is a lie and he is a liar. Easy-peazy.

And so, Mr. Peters, I look forward to seeing you in court. And once I'm done with you, and you've lost yet again, maybe you'll learn something. But I doubt it – you don't seem very good at the whole learning thing. As a side note, I find it very interesting that Mr. Peters cited the number of $50,000. Amazingly, that's about the same amount that the Axanar Kickstarter has taken in. Wow – what are the odds? It's as though Mr. Peters suddenly has fifty grand to throw against me while collecting a similar amount from donors to pay for his star turn in Axanar. Strange coincidence, indeed. Does anybody else think this is too easy, or is it just me? It's like playing chess with the slow kid.

LLAP

Don

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

It just gets better, guys.

Alec Peters is going to sue Don Hillenbrand.

And so, Mr. Peters, I look forward to seeing you in court. And once I'm done with you, and you've lost yet again, maybe you'll learn something. But I doubt it – you don't seem very good at the whole learning thing. As a side note, I find it very interesting that Mr. Peters cited the number of $50,000. Amazingly, that's about the same amount that the Axanar Kickstarter has taken in. Wow – what are the odds? It's as though Mr. Peters suddenly has fifty grand to throw against me while collecting a similar amount from donors to pay for his star turn in Axanar. Strange coincidence, indeed. Does anybody else think this is too easy, or is it just me? It's like playing chess with the slow kid.

LLAP

Don

I think this is old...

 

[Ion]

It is.

 

[Karzak]

It just gets better, guys.

Alec Peters is going to sue Don Hillenbrand.

And so, Mr. Peters, I look forward to seeing you in court. And once I'm done with you, and you've lost yet again, maybe you'll learn something. But I doubt it – you don't seem very good at the whole learning thing. As a side note, I find it very interesting that Mr. Peters cited the number of $50,000. Amazingly, that's about the same amount that the Axanar Kickstarter has taken in. Wow – what are the odds? It's as though Mr. Peters suddenly has fifty grand to throw against me while collecting a similar amount from donors to pay for his star turn in Axanar. Strange coincidence, indeed. Does anybody else think this is too easy, or is it just me? It's like playing chess with the slow kid.

LLAP

Don

I think this is old...

I don't see any date on the webpage... but now that I think of it, I believe this guy did post a story like this a few years ago. My mistake.

Still, it just goes to show -- Alec simply cannot handle any kind of negative or contrary opinions, to the extreme degree. First this guy, then Vic Mignogna...

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

It just gets better, guys.

Alec Peters is going to sue Don Hillenbrand.

I think this is old...

I don't see any date on the webpage... but now that I think of it, I believe this guy did post a story like this a few years ago. My mistake.

Still, it just goes to show -- Alec simply cannot handle any kind of negative or contrary opinions, to the extreme degree. First this guy, then Vic Mignogna...

Alec has a reputation of being litigious... That's absolutely for sure. I talked to someone who met Vic last year at STLV, and as the conversation was going through fan films, Vic refused to even talk about anything Axanar, or Alec Peters. That's why I know that stuff that came up last year was just bluster by Alec....

 

[Ion]

It just gets better, guys.

Alec Peters is going to sue Don Hillenbrand.

I think this is old...

I don't see any date on the webpage... but now that I think of it, I believe this guy did post a story like this a few years ago. My mistake.

Still, it just goes to show -- Alec simply cannot handle any kind of negative or contrary opinions, to the extreme degree. First this guy, then Vic Mignogna...

How about this far more incendiary post?

How much of this is true and how much of it is a pissing contest between the two, I have no idea. There's some seriously bad blood between those two. I do recall hearing something about him suing Hillenbrand, though, so I'm reasonably sure it's old hat.

 

[Mudd]

Well, "Dhan" seems to have his issues too.

I'm wondering though - can anyone come up with an instance in which someone actually suffered as a result of Alec's threats of legal action? I mean, is there any record of his ever having followed through at all, or is this one more example of his empty strutting?

 

[Tom]

Im sure he will sue all of us at somepoint to.

 

[seigezunt]

"I see that you are not a donor."

That kind of gave me douchebumps.

 

[KennyB]

"I see that you are not a donor."

That kind of gave me douchebumps.

Nicely done Sir!!! Gonna be hard to beat that today!

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Well, "Dhan" seems to have his issues too.

I'm wondering though - can anyone come up with an instance in which someone actually suffered as a result of Alec's threats of legal action? I mean, is there any record of his ever having followed through at all, or is this one more example of his empty strutting?

Maybe one of our legal eagles with PACER access could search for him as a plaintiff?

 

[Red Shirt]

He actually said that he came out with little of the $16 million following the sale, and honestly that's not surprising. Between taxes and legal fees a good chunk of that could have been dried up. And apparently he did not get into hardcore prop collecting until 2008/09, so my guess is he sunk quite a bit of the remaining money left into his "hobby" which then became a new business.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[oswriter]

Well, "Dhan" seems to have his issues too.

I'm wondering though - can anyone come up with an instance in which someone actually suffered as a result of Alec's threats of legal action? I mean, is there any record of his ever having followed through at all, or is this one more example of his empty strutting?

In the Propworx bankruptcy petition, there is a reference to what I believe was a defamation case filed (and ultimately) dismissed in California.

 

[Campe]

Interesting you should ask that, Dennis.

There are 3 lawsuits listed on the Los Angeles docket for an Alec Peters. I cannot confirm the veracity as to whether they are actually THIS Alec Peters. One interesting point? He is a Defendant in all of the cases.

Two cases from 1995 -- one being a breach of contract, the second being a Commercial Compliance case. The commercial compliance matter was placed off the calendar in January 1997. No indications why. The Breach of Contract case, it appears there was a Default Judgment. The 2003 matter is just a renewal of that judgment.

EDIT: I also did a search on PacerMonitor for Federal matters. There are 5724 results on a search of "Alec Peters." I'm not digging through all of those.