CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
Albeit sometimes it is unintentionally hilarious.
I have a new favorite comment from that page!
"By the way, these works are listed on IMDB, which makes them official for years now. The various guilds have never complained, even though IMDB lists the works."
Neil
Sorry, I misunderstood what you posted. Several recommendations in this thread have suggested that CBS just start licensing people to make fanfilms. I thought this was another of those posts.
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."
Albeit sometimes it is unintentionally hilarious.
The first thing a lawyer always tells his client: Make sure you have some ex-television writer actively spread bad legal information about your case on your website.
I mean, I didn't go to law school myself, but that's like a day one lesson, right?
True. Devil's Advocate though: what if AP never read that article?
Oh, David. Do you really want to make your stand on this anthill?
First, I doubt there has ever been a single thing written about Axanar or Alec Peters that he hasn't read.
Second, if he didn't immediately retain an experienced IP lawyer after that article came out (if not months beforehand), he's not a very responsible business owner or steward of donor funds.
Good points.
I've seen this thrown about, as I said. My question is, are the various sources of this "rule" just assuming and propagating that assumption, or do we know factually that it's something that CBS has told them outright?
It makes a world of difference, and I've yet to see a definitive answer come up in the threads (which is not to say there isn't one
).I will also grant that ST:C appears to have a fairly well-maintained relationship with CBS Licensing and are thus unlikely to do such a thing, so this may be a redundant question -- but it's one that I feel needs to be asked just for clarity.
That's an extremely good point, and I'm starting to think that this was a deliberate omission on their part given that they could easily pile it on and win -- but if I understand correctly, they would then be pretty much obligated to target everyone else also, or risk the loss of their mark.
When you combine it with the reports of CBS's apparently lenient handling of the Ladies Of Kirk kickstarter, the recent assistance to ST:C in reinstating one of their episodes on YouTube, and their current silence toward other fan films, I really think their beef is specifically with Axanar, and they aren't interested in anyone else as long as they toe the line.
From what I recall, and someone correct me if I'm wrong here, it's not uncommon for an organization to file a whole bundle of lawsuits of this nature at once. That hasn't happened, and I don't see any benefit to them to "finish with Axanar" before going after someone else. It's not like they can't afford more lawyers, and they'll pay the same legal fees either way in the end.
I've seen this thrown about, as I said. My question is, are the various sources of this "rule" just assuming and propagating that assumption, or do we know factually that it's something that CBS has told them outright?
It makes a world of difference, and I've yet to see a definitive answer come up in the threads (which is not to say there isn't one
It's clearly just STC recounting a conversation they had with CBS legal. Obviously CBS will never put anything in writing because that could then be construed (by STC or a judge) as an express license.
Fair enough. I guess I'm just soured on taking anyone else's word as gospel because of Alec "I have conversations with CBS!" Peters' constant implications of very similar things. I get the impression that Peters hears what he wants to hear, not what was actually said -- either that or he's an outright liar.
I've not had any contact with (or done any research into) the guys at ST:C beyond a brief surface scrape of the Vic vs. Alec rivalry, so I have no direct idea of their credibility (though I'm assuming it's pretty good based on the tone of comments about them around here).
Fair enough. I guess I'm just soured on taking anyone else's word as gospel because of Alec "I have conversations with CBS!" Peters' constant implications of very similar things. I get the impression that Peters hears what he wants to hear, not what was actually said -- either that or he's an outright liar.
I've not had any contact with (or done any research into) the guys at ST:C beyond a brief surface scrape of the Vic vs. Alec rivalry, so I have no direct idea of their credibility (though I'm assuming it's pretty good based on the tone of comments about them around here).
The one thing I would add is the STC statement I quoted came from a document they filed with the IRS under an attorney's signature. That carries significantly more weight (with me at least) than most of Mr. Peters' statements.
Ah, thanks for that! That is a huge thing. They would have to be insane to lie to the IRS.
Unless, of course, they like being audited...
One thing I don't get is that everyone in a lot of the articles keep making a big deal about the crowdfunding stuff for Axanar, but Renegades, and I think Continues both used crowdfunding, so obviously that isn't an issue. So is the issue just the fact that they made so much $ or the way the $ was used, or is the crowdfunding itself not actually an issue?
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Not to mention raising funds using Trek IP to build a studio that's intended for use with for-profit productions. Not to mention selling Blu-rays, DVDs, models, and other swag in exchange for $$$ using said IP. Not to mention...
Based on what I understand so far, the amount they drew in (or the method they used) likely has little or nothing to do with it. The issues as far as I can see are:
- The people behind Axanar are paying themselves salaries out of donor money that was acquired through marketing that hinged on CBS IP. This, in my opinion, is the big one; according to their own annual report, this money isn't being used to make the film, they're just pocketing it, and it's not exactly a small amount (~$38K to Mr. Peters, I believe was the number last year).
- Axanar Productions is selling merchandise containing CBS IP. They call it donations and perks, but unless they're only asking for the amount it costs to make and ship them, it's still a sale that they're profiting on in some way (and I'm not at all sure it would be kosher even if they were doing it at cost, or at all for that matter). I expect they would argue that the profits go back into the film, but I can't speak to that.
As far as ST:C goes, the IRS filings that oswriter is talking about indicate that they don't have employees, let alone take salaries, so they're off the hook on point one. Don't know if they sell merchandise; as I said upthread, I know precious little about ST:C or its crew, which I do intend to rectify; color me interested.
I can only speak third-hand to Renegades, but all indications I've seen are that they aren't paying themselves either (at least beyond what the various Hollywood guilds require of them for continued membership, which may or may not be okay, and I don't know how they have that set up, if at all). I've heard that they've done the merchandise thing, but I don't know enough about it to comment. Tom should be able to tell you more about this if he's so inclined.
There's also the issue that, so far as I've seen, ST:C and Renegades are supportive of the Trek franchise, old or new, whereas the Axanar crew have a habit of mouthing off about the recent franchise efforts in an openly (and obnoxiously IMO) critical fashion, which probably doesn't do them any favors with anyone at CBS or Paramount.
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