CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Smoked Salmon]

Aw, thanks, Maurice! That lawyer would be me.

Sure. What do you think about Kickstarter's liability in this in terms of their allowing these projects when their rules clearly state projects musty have the rights to the I.P.? They can't claim they were ignorant of this.

If I was Peters's attorney, I'd be impleading them. But the thing of it is, win or lose, he'd be burning the bridge there, big time, and would probably find he suddenly could no longer crowdfund, anywhere (even at GoFundMe or Patreon or any another place where he has not yet tried to get $$). So you do a cost-benefit analysis. Better to implead them now, or gamble that you can use 'em for crowdfunding later?

I'd advise to implead them now, as this is the more immediate issue, and future crowdfunding is a much more dubious thing.

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

So it looks like Alec Peters has found my blog. He left this comment:

Way to go on the calm, professional response there, Champ.

Hey, I had to delete another comment from a not-terribly-literate Axanar fan who ended all of his sentences with "FACT." I decided to shut my blog down to comments altogether after that. I don't have time to play forum admin.

You should leave the comments open. Don't do the same as Peters, show that you are better than that.

 

[Amaris]

Sure. What do you think about Kickstarter's liability in this in terms of their allowing these projects when their rules clearly state projects musty have the rights to the I.P.? They can't claim they were ignorant of this.

If I was Peters's attorney, I'd be impleading them. But the thing of it is, win or lose, he'd be burning the bridge there, big time, and would probably find he suddenly could no longer crowdfund, anywhere (even at GoFundMe or Patreon or any another place where he has not yet tried to get $$). So you do a cost-benefit analysis. Better to implead them now, or gamble that you can use 'em for crowdfunding later?

I'd advise to implead them now, as this is the more immediate issue, and future crowdfunding is a much more dubious thing.

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Apparently, Indiegogo and Kickstarter were vying for Axanar, at least according to Peters. If that is true, then perhaps something else was afoot. At the very least, if I were either company, I'd already have my lawyer on the line.

 

[Karzak]

If I was Peters's attorney, I'd be impleading them. But the thing of it is, win or lose, he'd be burning the bridge there, big time, and would probably find he suddenly could no longer crowdfund, anywhere (even at GoFundMe or Patreon or any another place where he has not yet tried to get $$). So you do a cost-benefit analysis. Better to implead them now, or gamble that you can use 'em for crowdfunding later?

I'd advise to implead them now, as this is the more immediate issue, and future crowdfunding is a much more dubious thing.

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Apparently, Indiegogo and Kickstarter were vying for Axanar, at least according to Peters. If that is true, then perhaps something else was afoot. At the very least, if I were either company, I'd already have my lawyer on the line.

Don't you mean "That's the $1.2,000,000.00 question..." ?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

If I was Peters's attorney, I'd be impleading them. But the thing of it is, win or lose, he'd be burning the bridge there, big time, and would probably find he suddenly could no longer crowdfund, anywhere (even at GoFundMe or Patreon or any another place where he has not yet tried to get $$). So you do a cost-benefit analysis. Better to implead them now, or gamble that you can use 'em for crowdfunding later?

I'd advise to implead them now, as this is the more immediate issue, and future crowdfunding is a much more dubious thing.

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Apparently, Indiegogo and Kickstarter were vying for Axanar, at least according to Peters. If that is true, then perhaps something else was afoot. At the very least, if I were either company, I'd already have my lawyer on the line.

"Vying" for Axanar? What a load of crap.

 

[Amaris]

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Apparently, Indiegogo and Kickstarter were vying for Axanar, at least according to Peters. If that is true, then perhaps something else was afoot. At the very least, if I were either company, I'd already have my lawyer on the line.

Don't you mean "That's the $1.2,000,000.00 question..." ?

Well, first we'll need $64,000 that will get us part 1. Then if that does well, we can get $64,000 more and film part 2.

Of course, three months from now I'll tell you we need $500,000 for the actual film.

Then a year from now, I'll tell you we're halfway there, and we only need another $750,000.

So, one step at a time. Ares Studios weren't built in a day, you know.

Hang on a minute, Kickstarter states, as part of it's terms, that if you use someone else's IP you must have permission. If Peters signed up to Kickstarter and accepted the terms of business, indicating that he did have permission, wouldn't that provide a defence to Kickstarter?

Well, that's the $64,000 question. Apparently, Indiegogo and Kickstarter were vying for Axanar, at least according to Peters. If that is true, then perhaps something else was afoot. At the very least, if I were either company, I'd already have my lawyer on the line.

"Vying" for Axanar? What a load of crap.

Probably, but either way he's dragging them into it, so they better get ready for it.

 

[Gepard]

There were even plans for a Four Years War anthology book series, written by established Trek novelists from Pocket Books and in both regular and slipcase, special, signed limited editions.

.....

How were they planning to pull that off? I guess, sure, Axanar managed to lure in a bunch of Trek actors who haven't worked on Trek in years but I'd think it would be career suicide for tie-in fiction authors to write and sell unauthorized fanfic for the series they work for.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

There were even plans for a Four Years War anthology book series, written by established Trek novelists from Pocket Books and in both regular and slipcase, special, signed limited editions.

.....

How were they planning to pull that off? I guess, sure, Axanar managed to lure in a bunch of Trek actors who haven't worked on Trek in years but I'd think it would be career suicide for tie-in fiction authors to write and sell unauthorized fanfic for the series they work for.

One thing I have no doubt about is that Peters, like many people of his kind, has the gift of the gab when it comes to the easily led. Many Trek alum are fans first and foremost and I can imagine that those who no longer get to play in the sandbox, or haven't for a while, could be easily swayed by Peters' assurances that what he was doing was legit.

Others, such as David Mack and Tony Todd, seem to have seen through Peters' BS judging by the fact that both have backed up my take on this whole thing and otherwise generally don't seem convinced by Peters at all. Todd in particular has implied that he was concerned about Peters' use of funds months ago.

 

[Amaris]

There were even plans for a Four Years War anthology book series, written by established Trek novelists from Pocket Books and in both regular and slipcase, special, signed limited editions.

.....

How were they planning to pull that off? I guess, sure, Axanar managed to lure in a bunch of Trek actors who haven't worked on Trek in years but I'd think it would be career suicide for tie-in fiction authors to write and sell unauthorized fanfic for the series they work for.

One thing I have no doubt about is that Peters, like many people of his kind, has the gift of the gab when it comes to the easily led. Many Trek alum are fans first and foremost and I can imagine that those who no longer get to play in the sandbox, or haven't for a while, could be easily swayed by Peters' assurances that what he was doing was legit.

Others, such as David Mack and Tony Todd, seem to have seen through Peters' BS judging by the fact that both have backed up my take on this whole thing and otherwise generally don't seem convinced by Peters at all. Todd in particular has implied that he was concerned about Peters' use of funds months ago.

Wouldn't that be fraud on some level?

 

[JoeZhang]

Did we ever get to the bottom of who these authors were?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

.....

How were they planning to pull that off? I guess, sure, Axanar managed to lure in a bunch of Trek actors who haven't worked on Trek in years but I'd think it would be career suicide for tie-in fiction authors to write and sell unauthorized fanfic for the series they work for.

One thing I have no doubt about is that Peters, like many people of his kind, has the gift of the gab when it comes to the easily led. Many Trek alum are fans first and foremost and I can imagine that those who no longer get to play in the sandbox, or haven't for a while, could be easily swayed by Peters' assurances that what he was doing was legit.

Others, such as David Mack and Tony Todd, seem to have seen through Peters' BS judging by the fact that both have backed up my take on this whole thing and otherwise generally don't seem convinced by Peters at all. Todd in particular has implied that he was concerned about Peters' use of funds months ago.

Wouldn't that be fraud on some level?

Thing is that one thing I believe about Peters is that he thought what he was doing was legitimate. I don't think he intentionally made fraudulent misrepresentations. I just think that he's one of these people that is so full of himself that he'd convinced himself that he could do what he could and used his self-confidence to convince others - but for some that wasn't enough. Some were smart enough to ask questions anyway.

 

[Amaris]

One thing I have no doubt about is that Peters, like many people of his kind, has the gift of the gab when it comes to the easily led. Many Trek alum are fans first and foremost and I can imagine that those who no longer get to play in the sandbox, or haven't for a while, could be easily swayed by Peters' assurances that what he was doing was legit.

Others, such as David Mack and Tony Todd, seem to have seen through Peters' BS judging by the fact that both have backed up my take on this whole thing and otherwise generally don't seem convinced by Peters at all. Todd in particular has implied that he was concerned about Peters' use of funds months ago.

Wouldn't that be fraud on some level?

Thing is that one thing I believe about Peters is that he thought what he was doing was legitimate. I don't think he intentionally made fraudulent misrepresentations. I just think that he's one of these people that is so full of himself that he'd convinced himself that he could do what he could and used his self-confidence to convince others - but for some that wasn't enough. Some were smart enough to ask questions anyway.

In other words, Hanlon's Razor?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Did we ever get to the bottom of who these authors were?

I don't know if this guy is in any way connected.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/four-years-war-novels-by-stephen-fender/

Peters said this last year:-

I cannot tell you all how excited I am to present to you a project that you will all love. Axanar: The Four Years War Anthology. A collection of 6 short stories, one on each character in Prelude to Axanar written by current Star Trek authors and NY Times best selling Sci Fi authors. The stories will be set during the time of the war and help inform each character who you will see in Axanar. The book will be a limited edition hard cover, slip cased edition. Stay tuned for details.

No names, obviously.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=263674

 

[starburst]

Oh sorry. I'm not sure. CBS/Paramount may be looking at Indiegogo and Kickstarter as being kind of second down the line, as it were (like not just the coffee company, but also the carpenters who may have built the sets, etc.). They (Kickstarter and Indiegogo) didn't start this mess, although they did benefit from it.

I wonder how far CBS can go with the “no one profits” because ignoring the people who make that coffee somewhere along the line a company will be profiting from these projects when they pay the company they buy timber, paint and even nails from. I believe there was a post which said the screens used on the Ares Bridge were bought on Black Friday which means Best Buy, Costco (or whoever) will be profiting along with whoever manufactured the screens (and so on an so forth). Not everything in a non profit is not for profit as not everything is free.

If they just "file the numbers off" aren't they still on the hook for Prelude? I mean Peters did raise an S Ton of money using Star Trek Ip....

Problem with that being is while the feature film itself wouldn’t be using the Star Trek IP, and even if you ignore Prelude, that feature will still have been funded off of the Star Trek name even if the final product doesn’t resemble that IP.

I thought those AxaMinion shirts were a joke.

They can't be real...right?

Yes they are real.

There are many unlicensed items the Axanar Donor store had been advertising and distributing.

Posters:

T-shirts:

Starship model kits:

Patches:

Soundtrack CDs:

Blu-Rays & DVDs:

IDIC Patches:

Slippery slope here though as there are many people out there who produce unlicensed props, models, costumes etc… Not saying they are in the right at all but something like this could easily change the face of the fan and hobby community (collectors, prop makers, cosplayers etc etc etc) beyond a Star Trek fan film and the topic of Star Trek itself.

Really is a nice model though, if it wasn’t for these problems I would consider picking one up but I don’t want to add to the current issues faced by the people connected to this project or the Trek fanbase in general.

Yeah, but in the past the Kickstarter for New Voyages and the "KIRK-Starter" for Continues have both offered perks like scripts, photos, posters, et al as rewards for donating.

Neither however have gone so overboard as Ares Studios has.

I doubt CBS or Paramount would care about a fan production giving a signed script away or photos of a cover band cast (as long as its not trademarked)

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Wouldn't that be fraud on some level?

Thing is that one thing I believe about Peters is that he thought what he was doing was legitimate. I don't think he intentionally made fraudulent misrepresentations. I just think that he's one of these people that is so full of himself that he'd convinced himself that he could do what he could and used his self-confidence to convince others - but for some that wasn't enough. Some were smart enough to ask questions anyway.

In other words, Hanlon's Razor?

Essentially.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

@starburst

All of those examples infringe copyright. I think the real issue in this case is the scale of this endeavour and the fact that to the untrained eye it looks like an official production. If they do nothing now, how long before someone goes even bigger?

 

[starburst]

@starburst

All of those examples infringe copyright. I think the real issue in this case is the scale of this endeavour and the fact that to the untrained eye it looks like an official production. If they do nothing now, how long before someone goes even bigger?

Yeh they do, and you are right its the scale of it... I doubt anyone will go after a hobby costumer who makes small runs of Star Trek tunics every couple of years but if you ramped it up to Anovos levels there will be more than a couple people come a knocking.

I just hope this doesn't have a knock onto the hobby building communities.

 

[Amaris]

Well, no one will stop me from my dream of making "Star Trek: Super Awesome Pew Pew And At Least One Trek Alumnus," and offering intimate rubdowns as one of our donation gifts.

 

[Karzak]

Did we ever get to the bottom of who these authors were?

I don't know if this guy is in any way connected.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/four-years-war-novels-by-stephen-fender/

Peters said this last year:-

I cannot tell you all how excited I am to present to you a project that you will all love. Axanar: The Four Years War Anthology. A collection of 6 short stories, one on each character in Prelude to Axanar written by current Star Trek authors and NY Times best selling Sci Fi authors. The stories will be set during the time of the war and help inform each character who you will see in Axanar. The book will be a limited edition hard cover, slip cased edition. Stay tuned for details.

No names, obviously.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=263674

From that thread:

On the Official Axanar Podcast on Trek.FM, a few more details were announced.

• There will be six novellas.
• Each story will be 60-80 pages
• 5 authors are known Treklit authors including James Swallow
• The other author is NYTB Aaron Dembski-Bowden
• There will be a story about each of the following characters: Captain Garth, Admiral Ramirez, Captain Alexander, Commander Kharn, Captain Travis, and Ambassador Soval. The stories are set during the Four Years War.
• Aaron Dembski-Bowden will write the Captain Alexander story.
• James Swallow will write the Captain Garth story.
• Aaron Dembski-Bowden will probably write the Axanar novelization

I'm most looking forward to the Soval story, that is if I can ever get my hands on a copy.

Also from that thread, a pretty damning comment for Peters from none other than David Mack:

After this, what on God's green earth with compel anyone to ever spend money on a Star Trek novel again? The writers are writing them for free now!

Actually, it's my understanding that the authors hired to write supplemental materials for Axanar are all being paid professional rates for their work, just as the SAG actors appearing in the production are. I've also heard rumors that Alec Peters has been completely above-board with the folks at CBS Television Licensing, and is doing all he can to not provoke a legal response. So let's all cool it with the predictions of legal apocalypse, please.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Did we ever get to the bottom of who these authors were?

I don't know if this guy is in any way connected.

http://www.axanarproductions.com/four-years-war-novels-by-stephen-fender/

Peters said this last year:-


No names, obviously.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=263674

From that thread:

On the Official Axanar Podcast on Trek.FM, a few more details were announced.

• There will be six novellas.
• Each story will be 60-80 pages
• 5 authors are known Treklit authors including James Swallow
• The other author is NYTB Aaron Dembski-Bowden
• There will be a story about each of the following characters: Captain Garth, Admiral Ramirez, Captain Alexander, Commander Kharn, Captain Travis, and Ambassador Soval. The stories are set during the Four Years War.
• Aaron Dembski-Bowden will write the Captain Alexander story.
• James Swallow will write the Captain Garth story.
• Aaron Dembski-Bowden will probably write the Axanar novelization

I'm most looking forward to the Soval story, that is if I can ever get my hands on a copy.

ahhhh. I couldn't be bothered to read further in the tread.