CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[JWPlatt]

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not to simply complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

 

[JoeZhang]

My thought is that amateur psychoanalysis of someone from whom you want cooperation is never constructive.


How will that help all the other productions?

What is your angle here? Surely you don't think that this thread will sway either CBS, or Alec Peters, to change their strategy? For CBS, they don't need to do anything but apply the law as it is, because they're in the right. For Alec Peters, this has become a crusade against the unholy, and since he is openly defying CBS, inviting them to push further, then we are beyond talking nice. That ship has sailed.

My disagreement and condemnation of his actions changes nothing. So what is your angle, and why now after all of these pages where you said nothing to that effect before?

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not simply to complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter, and volunteers to implement them. And volunteers don't want to work in a poisonous atmosphere - they leave. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

The analogue makes no sense - there are two parties and everyone else is an observer with no influence.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

There is no fan reaction (in any significant sense) - nobody gives a shit In a way (financial) that they can measure.

 

[JWPlatt]

I'm writing that the mob can determine whether this can be a positive or negative outcome, depending on their actions. I'm more interested in seeing discussion about how this could be turned into something positive instead of making it into something destructive.

My strongest recommendation for something positive would be for the people at Axanar to stop talking and try to work with CBS/Paramount to try to resolve this as best they can. At the moment this is going to only be destructive.

Yep.

 

[SeerSGB]

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not to simply complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

I know you didn't ask me, but, I don't think they care. Enterprise proved there's not enough of a hardcore fanbase to pander to to be worth the effort. The real money and the interest in in contemporary (JJ) Star Trek. Old guard doesn't matter, really, anymore.

 

[Squiggy]

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not to simply complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

Not if it's so small it's insignificant.

They're a massive media company. They crunched the pro vs con of this.

Pro: We smack this guy down.
Con: If 100% of their fans boycott Beyond we'll lose 780,000.

Meh.

 

[jespah]

Thank you Coloratura

SeerSGB it is a complex and kind of arcane area. I imagine most who practice in it are set for work, as it's not a big wing of the profession. Kind of like tax law; if you can stand studying and practicing it, you'll never want for work.

 

[Amaris]

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not to simply complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

Fan reaction doesn't matter when it comes to blatant disregard for their trademark and copyright. Alec Peters, and a number of people at Axanar, are being accused of theft. You're saying that CBS should be concerned about what a few of the thief's friends, who stand to gain from this theft by the way, think when CBS catches him selling their goods for his own profit after stealing them from their warehouse.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Wouldn't it be better for the Axanar case to set precedent (and consequences) and make clear rules from CBS that preserve all Star Trek fan productions, including Axanar?

There are sound reasons why CBS can't and shouldn't establish "clear rules... that preserve all Star Trek fan productions."

Official rules from CBS would give fan productions tacit approval. And that tacit approval for fan productions to use CBS' IP would cause issues with official licensees; companies are paying for the privilege of using the Star Trek IP, while official rules for fan productions would give those productions cover for using the Star Trek IP for free. Why should someone pay to use the Star Trek IP in that case?

It would be better for Axanar, sure, if there were clear rules. But it's not better for CBS. And it's CBS that owns the Star Trek IP, not Axanar.

 

[JWPlatt]

The analogue makes no sense...

No analogy or metaphor holds up to literal and inflexible interpretation.

 

[Amaris]

Wouldn't it be better for the Axanar case to set precedent (and consequences) and make clear rules from CBS that preserve all Star Trek fan productions, including Axanar?

There are sound reasons why CBS can't and shouldn't establish "clear rules... that preserve all Star Trek fan productions."

Official rules from CBS would give fan productions tacit approval. And that tacit approval for fan productions to use CBS' IP would cause issues with official licensees; companies are paying for the privilege of using the Star Trek IP, while official rules for fan productions would give those productions cover for using the Star Trek IP for free. Why should someone pay to use the Star Trek IP in that case?

It would be better for Axanar, sure, if there were clear rules. But it's not better for CBS. And it's CBS that owns the Star Trek IP, not Axanar.

Indeed. Look at what Axanar did without any approval from CBS at all.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

You often see the best people go defensive and make mistakes when backed into a corner.

I'm still waiting for him to do something that isn't a mistake.

Every single thing he's said so far has either been legally, ethically, morally questionable (at best) or flat out arrogant and above the law.

And if his hope is to say childish shit online and then delete it then he doesn't understand how the internet works. When he posts something to Star Trek's offical Facebook page, a LOT of people at CBS and Paramount are getting a notification that they've been called out.

Essentially, he's poking the prosecution in the eye and expects to get away with it.

The first rule of Lawsuit Club: DON'T. TALK. ABOUT. LAWSUIT. CLUB.

That wasn't on the official Star Trek page... That was in the Axanar related Star Trek group

 

[Squiggy]

Looked like Peters shared that to the Star Trek page. Did something get cut off?

 

[JWPlatt]

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

Fan reaction doesn't matter when it comes to blatant disregard for their trademark and copyright. Alec Peters, and a number of people at Axanar, are being accused of theft. You're saying that CBS should be concerned about what a few of the thief's friends, who stand to gain from this theft by the way, think when CBS catches him selling their goods for his own profit after stealing them from their warehouse.

Those are just more complaints when some quiet negotiations could bring a resolution that could save face for all parties. Things can be fixed unless everyone says they can't. Anything is possible - it's not physics.

Wouldn't it be better for the Axanar case to set precedent (and consequences) and make clear rules from CBS that preserve all Star Trek fan productions, including Axanar?

There are sound reasons why CBS can't and shouldn't establish "clear rules... that preserve all Star Trek fan productions."

Official rules from CBS would give fan productions tacit approval.

Fair point, especially when other companies have zero-tolerance for the kinds of things Star Trek fan productions do that are tolerated without explicit approvals. I don't have all the answers, but they can be found if people try and are creative.

 

[Woulfe]

This is a train wreck in progress... A slow train wreck... Is it right ? Is it wrong ?
Is it fair ? Is it unfair ? What is gained by being nice ? What is lost by not being nice ?
When the folks who are driving the train are saying "We will win" when the writing is on the wall says "End of the line" and the train is still moving forward, what do you say ?
The fact is this guy has done this sort of thing before and got slapped by a lawsuit, and here he is again caught red handed w/ his hand in the cookie jar, what can we say ?
Should we say, oh we are sorry you got caught a second time doing this ?
If someone who committed the same crime twice be forgiven ?
This whole thing has spun out of control before it even started, yet everyone has to suddenly play nice now just because ?
Most here have been trying to just wrap our heads around this whole mess, dealing with it by being humorous, saying silly things, trying to make light of the whole situation.
The facts still remain, the head honcho has a history of getting into trouble and getting slapped w/ a lawsuit, and here he is getting slapped with another one, we are now to trust him ?
What is the point of putting our trust in someone who has broken the law in the same way before ?
I ask you, heck I ask everyone, what's the point ?

 

[Amaris]

Do you believe that CBS has no guiding interest in fan reaction?

Fan reaction doesn't matter when it comes to blatant disregard for their trademark and copyright. Alec Peters, and a number of people at Axanar, are being accused of theft. You're saying that CBS should be concerned about what a few of the thief's friends, who stand to gain from this theft by the way, think when CBS catches him selling their goods for his own profit after stealing them from their warehouse.

Those are just more complaints when some quiet negotiations could bring a resolution that could save face for all parties. Things can be fixed unless everyone says they can't. Anything is possible - it's not physics.

Save face for whom? CBS is in the right, and they're about to prove to Axanar why you can't do what they did and expect to walk away scot-free. The people who are the angriest are the small core of fans on the Axanar page who think CBS is after them because they're afraid Axanar will make them look bad.

So who needs to save face? It's certainly not CBS, and with Peters provocations it's long past quiet resolution, regardless of whether or not you think "I'm sorry, we'll not do it again Mister" will pay for the legal fees CBS has already incurred with this already-in-motion lawsuit and upcoming injunction.

 

[Astra]

I can't view this (I have a Windows phone) - can others?
https://www.periscope.tv/w/aVYoYDI3...CrrXIfBO4DQovu_OMnjWtlqQoGTY2h1prwucTe4xF6bk=

I saw that the content of the video was already described, I just wanted to add that if it doesn't work on your phone, you can watch Periscope videos for 24 hours on desktop computers using any internet browser. This one should be available for another 10 hours. When clicking the link, there is a "play again" button.

 

[JWPlatt]

Fan reaction doesn't matter when it comes to blatant disregard for their trademark and copyright. Alec Peters, and a number of people at Axanar, are being accused of theft. You're saying that CBS should be concerned about what a few of the thief's friends, who stand to gain from this theft by the way, think when CBS catches him selling their goods for his own profit after stealing them from their warehouse.

Those are just more complaints when some quiet negotiations could bring a resolution that could save face for all parties. Things can be fixed unless everyone says they can't. Anything is possible - it's not physics.

Save face for whom? CBS is in the right, and they're about to prove to Axanar why you can't do what they did and expect to walk away scot-free...

Scot-free... Do you remember the example consequence I suggested in a previous post? I don't think it's impossible to find solutions that implement consequences while preserving CBS interests and valued aspects of the creative community.

 

[dub]

This is a train wreck in progress... A slow train wreck... Is it right ? Is it wrong ?
Is it fair ? Is it unfair ? What is gained by being nice ? What is lost by not being nice ?
When the folks who are driving the train are saying "We will win" when the writing is on the wall says "End of the line" and the train is still moving forward, what do you say ?
The fact is this guy has done this sort of thing before and got slapped by a lawsuit, and here he is again caught red handed w/ his hand in the cookie jar, what can we say ?
Should we say, oh we are sorry you got caught a second time doing this ?
If someone who committed the same crime twice be forgiven ?
This whole thing has spun out of control before it even started, yet everyone has to suddenly play nice now just because ?
Most here have been trying to just wrap our heads around this whole mess, dealing with it by being humorous, saying silly things, trying to make light of the whole situation.
The facts still remain, the head honcho has a history of getting into trouble and getting slapped w/ a lawsuit, and here he is getting slapped with another one, we are now to trust him ?
What is the point of putting our trust in someone who has broken the law in the same way before ?
I ask you, heck I ask everyone, what's the point ?

Is this a poem? It's formatted like a poem. Can we get Shatner to do a dramatic reading with jazz in the background?

 

[Harvey]

What exactly are you hoping will be accomplished here, JWPlatt?

 

[9gs]

This is a train wreck in progress... A slow train wreck... Is it right ? Is it wrong ?
Is it fair ? Is it unfair ? What is gained by being nice ? What is lost by not being nice ?
When the folks who are driving the train are saying "We will win" when the writing is on the wall says "End of the line" and the train is still moving forward, what do you say ?
The fact is this guy has done this sort of thing before and got slapped by a lawsuit, and here he is again caught red handed w/ his hand in the cookie jar, what can we say ?
Should we say, oh we are sorry you got caught a second time doing this ?
If someone who committed the same crime twice be forgiven ?
This whole thing has spun out of control before it even started, yet everyone has to suddenly play nice now just because ?
Most here have been trying to just wrap our heads around this whole mess, dealing with it by being humorous, saying silly things, trying to make light of the whole situation.
The facts still remain, the head honcho has a history of getting into trouble and getting slapped w/ a lawsuit, and here he is getting slapped with another one, we are now to trust him ?
What is the point of putting our trust in someone who has broken the law in the same way before ?
I ask you, heck I ask everyone, what's the point ?

Yes absolutely! I want to stop reading these posts but I am powerless to stop Axanar is dead. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. I gave them a small amount of money the first time like alot of people. Now is the time to rally around the other fan productions and pray that they escape the blast radius.