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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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The donations were the choice of the fans. They didn't have to.
It's all money raised 100% using the Star Trek name and imagery, which is going into Alec Peters and friends' pockets. Raising money and paying yourself is fine for an original project. But Star Trek is not Peters' property and he has no right to make his living off of it.

If you made a movie, or wrote a book or whatever and it was successful, and someone came along and decided to make their own prequel, raised funds to do so (using your imagery etc) and made their living off that money, would you be happy? If it's okay to rip-off big companies like CBS and Paramount in this way, it's okay to rip-off anyone at any level. What about the artists and writers who can't afford to prosecute their thieves? Those are the consequences of supporting Axanar.
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.

They only stepped over the line because Alec and his team didn't display a shred of common sense and let their mouths run wild. If they would've kept their mouths shut, or at least toned down the rhetoric CBS wouldn't have had to slap them down (don't see James Cawley or any other fan-film producers talking and acting like this.......and what do you know, CBS hasn't touched them).

No matter what you think of CBS/Paramount, they're in the right on this 100%
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.
Did you read the quote from the Wrap last year, where C/P came out publicly and said that this was not a sanctioned project and AP & co were not to make it? They are playing in a sandbox owned by C/P, and as the owners are the sole arbitors of who gets to play there. No and, if, or buts
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.

That is not at all what happened.
To form a more qualified opinion, I'd suggest you read though this thread from the beginning. It would sincerely help you.
Due diligence might be the 2 key words here. Thank you!
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. Don't blame CBS and Paramount for that aspect of it at all. They have the right to defend their copyright. If any other fan production was sued, that group would likely stand down. Axanar's production staff's arrogance is what brought this on. I'm sorry that fans aren't going to get what they donated for but it is unfair to blame this on the group who is legally, morally and ethically in the right.
 
Got a question about the way US courts work...

Axanar and Peters are being sued in a Californian court, but what happens if they move the sets and stuff to another state? Would CBS/Paramount have to take out a new case in, for example, Nevada or South Dakota?
Actually, they are being sued in Federal Court (because IP infringement is a Federal cause of action). Doesn't matter where they go, and it wouldn't matter if it was a state law case, either. They're still on the hook and the case goes on. A train ticket to Dubuque does not end a lawsuit.
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.

Axanar still has plenty of false promises, don't worry. We talked to CBS and they're okay with it. This is not a fan film, it's an independent production/this is a fan film like all the others (you can decide which one is false). Tony Todd is in Axanar. We have a finished script/we don't have a finished script (you can decide which one is false).

Others can provide more, I'm sure.
 
Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.
Actually, that does not appear to be the case. Even before the hammer was dropped and the suit was filed, the Axa camp was saying they needed more $$ to complete the film. Don't stick CBS/Paramount in the way of them finishing this runaway train to nowhere, or at least don't blame them for all of it. The budget is out of control and there is a textbook case of scope creep happening here, no matter what you think of the lawsuit.
 
Considering they ran Strange New Worlds for how long

The original one ran for ten years, and they lost money on them from the start. From a round-table discussion I did on the books 7 years ago (Dean is Dean Wesley Smith, the editor of the SNW books back then):

“Anthologies never make enough money in publishing.” Dean explains. “Nature of the beast, but Pocket Books and Paramount wanted to fund this to get the new writers in, to keep the fans writing Trek, and it worked for ten wonderful years. But even deep pockets like Pocket Books and Paramount couldn’t continue to lose as much money as this was costing them, so ten years seemed to be like a good place to stop. I didn’t expect it to go past year one, to be honest.”

They have done a contest recently with another anthology coming out sometime this year, but this time Archway, S&S' vanity press arm is involved, so some think it's a tad fishy this time around.
 
Sometimes people barge into a discussion, and it's like, kid, this is a discussion about the feasibility of using a satellite's hydrazine thrusters in a ground-based control system to replace a gyroscopic stabilizer that failed due to spacecraft charging. But yes, your X-wing model looks very nice.

(Though I don't know if anyone still uses hydrazine or if they've all gone to XIPS or something else. I'm a librarian, Jim, not a rocket scientist, and I work for a government agency instead of a satellite communications firm now.)
 
Sometimes people barge into a discussion, and it's like, kid, this is a discussion about the feasibility of using a satellite's hydrazine thrusters in a ground-based control system to replace a gyroscopic stabilizer that failed due to spacecraft charging. But yes, your X-wing model looks very nice.

(Though I don't know if anyone still uses hydrazine or if they've all gone to XIPS or something else. I'm a librarian, Jim, not a rocket scientist, and I work for a government agency instead of a satellite communications firm now.)


*points to post*

Can I call an intruder alert...?

Think we have been boarded by an Axanerd

I called it first
 
The donations were the choice of the fans. They didn't have to.

Somethimg that wasn't delivered because of CBS. If they hadn't sued, the fans would have gotten their money's worth in a good fan series and it wouldn't have been false promises. But CBS made it a false promise. It wouldn't have been, if not for CBS.

Welcome to an ongoing examination of what emerges from the Axanar project. You will find that there is a lot of useful info that gets figured out here as things go along.

Here's my reaction to your offered thoughts. In my opinion, fans were given an incorrect impression by Axanar during the fundraising. That incorrect impression was that the rights holders (CBS and Parmount, C/P) were ok with fundraising going to salaries and a studio, in addition to a fan film. In all likelihood, the managers of the Axanar project knew this was not true, but their public way of avoiding admitting this to fans was to say 'we keep asking and C/P won't tell us explicitly to stop, so it must be ok'.

This may sound reasonable, but there is yet another layer that definitely was in play. Fan productions all knew that there was a clear legal reason why C/P would not give an exact answer to what could and could not be done, but instead gave a general answer which boiled down to "we will be pretty flexible PROVIDED YOU DONT MAKE MONEY". All the other fan films cooperated, but even so, Axanar went down the money-making path and crucially, failed to report to donors/fans that the C/P condition clearly meant no salaries, no studio.

So in essence, you end up as a donor being given the impression that Axanar was simply left in the dark, and using their best judgment, felt it was ok and didn't represent any risk of lawsuit to dedicate a large portion of donor funds to building a permanent studio company and paying its staff. This impression of CBS/Paramount's position that was given to donors/fans seems by all appearances to have been inaccurate based on what every other fan film already knew, and what the Axanar staff therefore surely must have known. But Axanar did not say this info when asking for money. You can see why: if Axanar had said "there's a high risk of us being sued and having to lose the donations and never deliver this film, because we are trying to build a business on the side for ourselves and pay ourselves", then donors would not have put in the money.

Because the boundaries of CBS/Paramount were not conveyed to donors/fans, fans can't really, in ignorance of the C/P boundaries, correctly blame C/P for stopping Axanar when the boundary was crossed in a big way, and C/P made good on their public warnings. And because donors/fans were given the impression that they had the legal right to fund a company that was violating the copyright privileges (to own the financial benefits arising from their copyrights) of C/P to such an extreme degree, one can't really blame most fans for taking this uninformed position. But fans donating in ignorance of the situation didn't make the situation ok.

You don't have to look any farther to find an explanation. Axanar management and some supporters would love for you to look elsewhere, with suggestions they have made like the studios abdicated their rights to control the Trek property by putting out things fans don't want, the studios are threatened by the quality of Axanar, etc. But it comes down to Axanar building themselves a business out of hundreds of thousands of dollars of donations by using Trek intellectual property as their 'value', and claiming its ok because 'fans said its ok to use the value this way' (after misinforming the fans), instead of just making a fan film.

The good will around fan films, the wiggle room if you like, was driven through with a profit seeking Mac Truck by Axanar. You got driven over in the process. The possibility of getting this as a great fan film got driven over. There is a bunch of wreckage around now. The truck drivers are still up locked in the cab playing their Star Trek soundtracks as loud as they can and driving over anyone they see who is coming up to them saying 'what are you doing'. Law enforcement has shown up, but the self declared "professional artist entrepreneurs" up in the cab are gesturing that they don't understand the megaphones.

And don't even think about the people who are expecting the delivery. They are still being texted that everything will be fine and don't turn on the TV. That chapter hasn't even begun.

Sorry to paint such a bleak picture, but there you have it.
 
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@PhaserLightShow, you seem to think that the fans own Star Trek and can do what they want. Not the case. C/P own the IP and is free to do anything, or nothing with it. Under copyright law, they can go after any, all, or no infringers, AT THEIR SOLE DISCRETION.
No, I don't think the fans own Star Trek. But, @CaptGrumpy, if it wasn't for the fans, C/P wouldn't make any money from Star Trek. The fans are what drive Star Trek. No fans, no show. Star Trek is FOR the fans.
 
That doesn't provide any justification for what Peters and co. have been accused of in the lawsuit; infringement and direct financial benefit from the Star Trek IP.

CBS/P have been extremely lenient with other fan films by allowing them to go in whatever creative direction they wished to pursue as long as they played by the rules. And by his own admission he damn well knew what those rules where but that didn't stop him from breaking them!
 
No, I don't think the fans own Star Trek. But, @CaptGrumpy, if it wasn't for the fans, C/P wouldn't make any money from Star Trek. The fans are what drive Star Trek. No fans, no show. Star Trek is FOR the fans.
That still doesn't give fans the right to take what doesn't belong to them. Read the original Indiegogo page. They sought to make a Professional, independent Star Trek film. Only the IP owners have the legal right to do that. To make matters worse they said (rightly, or wrongly) that they are making the movie that real Star Trek fans want. A) that sets them up as competition, which they legally can't (cuz they don't OWN the IP), and B) I consider myself Real Star Trek fan, having been one since the '70's, and he didn't speak for me.
 
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