CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Franklin]

Look at recruitment ads for the U.S. military services. Most stress humanitarian purposes and keeping peace and order in lawless areas. But we all know what the military really exists for, even those joining it know it.

It looks to me as if Starfleet morphed into something that more openly (and sincerely) took on humanitarian and scientific purposes. At the end of the day, it's military and the first line of defense, but most of its mission (it's day-to-day reason to be) is peaceful. Pike probably described it best in ST09. It's a "peacekeeping and humanitarian armada."

As a piece of fiction, I think part of the debate among those who produced "Star Trek" down through the years was the degree to which military decorum would be followed in this hybrid service. Whether it would be something like the Meyer way, or the early TNG way. It seems both extremes have brought criticism from fans.

On topic, I won't draw conclusions from an early draft of anyone's work, especially a review of it. That's not entirely fair. That said, it has always seemed that Axanar was going to be a big war picture whatever the final form took. It makes me think of a smaller version of Jendresen's "Star Trek" idea.

 

[Albinator]

Point is, Starfleet-- while serving the functions of a necessary military-- is not a battle fleet.

Because the federation philosophy does not include war.

Their mission is to explore the galaxy and to peacefully co-exist with new civilizations. They seek out new life not just for knowledge, but ensure a more harmonious galaxy (several episodes have noted that they make contact with new races as they become warp capable to avoid them becoming enemies, and to help guide them into what they want to be a more peaceful galactic community).

Essentially, Starfleet is the space-faring agency that seeks out friendship with other races, while still being prepared to defend themselves in the event of an encounter with a hostile foe.

 

[BillJ]

On topic, I won't draw conclusions from an early draft of anyone's work, especially a review of it. That's not entirely fair.

I agree. It is tough to get a read on a project based on a five year old screenplay draft.

 

[muCephi]

I agree. It is tough to get a read on a project based on a five year old screenplay draft.

it will make any improvements now stand out, so there is that.

 

[BillJ]

Because the federation philosophy does not include war.

I'd say it does include war.

Or else you wouldn't be building exploration craft with the ability to destroy the habitable surface of a planet.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

May I suggest we table the discussion of whether Starfleet is a military or not. We all have strong opinions on both sides and we end up always circling the same old arguments.

 

[BillJ]

May I suggest we table the discussion of whether Starfleet is a military or not. We all have strong opinions on both sides and we end up always circling the same old arguments.

I find it a nice diversion from the Alec Peters circle jerk.

 

[Mudd]

Since none of it's real I'm satisfied to take it at face value. If I have too much trouble buying into it I just abandon it.

This has enabled me to enjoy Farscape and discard Babylon 5.

 

[KennyB]

May I suggest we table the discussion of whether Starfleet is a military or not. We all have strong opinions on both sides and we end up always circling the same old arguments.

Or start another thread elsewhere...........

 

[Franklin]

Essentially, Starfleet is the space-faring agency that seeks out friendship with other races, while still being prepared to defend themselves in the event of an encounter with a hostile foe.

"We come in peace; set phasers on stun." Probably the second best line never really said in "Star Trek". ("Beam me up, Scotty," being the first.)

 

[Jedi_Master]

May I suggest we table the discussion of whether Starfleet is a military or not. We all have strong opinions on both sides and we end up always circling the same old arguments.

Indeed. It is far more productive to discuss whether or not the Federation has a monetary based economy.

 

[Albinator]

I'd say it does include war.

Or else you wouldn't be building exploration craft with the ability to destroy the habitable surface of a planet.

Maybe i'm still not clear: their philosophy does not include overthrowing foreign governments, pre-emptive strikes, invasion/occupations of terrorist states, etc. Yes, there will always be research into weapons tech, there will always be the rogue Admiral (Marcus, Cartwright, Layton, Dougherty, Pressman.. boy they had a real problem with Admirals...)...

But generally, they are what Pike said in '09 cited above: primarily a humanitarian and peace-keeping armada with a mission of exploration and discovery.

 

[HIjol]

Indeed. It is far more productive to discuss whether or not the Federation has a monetary based economy.

I am glad you brought that up!...





A Ferengi coin

"Well, if you don't need money, then you certainly don't need mine!"
– Nog, 2373 ("In the Cards")


In the 20th century and early in the 21st century, dollars were a commonly used form of money. (DS9: "Little Green Men"; ENT: "Carpenter Street")

During the 2020s, the United States of America used credit chips as a form of currency. (DS9: "Past Tense, Part I")

Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federationeconomy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:

• During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylorand was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

• Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")

• When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)

• When Nog suggested that Jake should bid for a baseball card in an auction, Jake said "I'm Human, I don't have any money." Nog replied "It's not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement." Jake said "Hey, watch it. There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." Nog then replied "What does that mean?" Jake responded "It means we don't need money!" Nog quickly pointed out, however, that Jake wouldn't be able to bid or borrow. (DS9: "In the Cards")

• Tom Paris said about the significance of Fort Knox: "When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century and money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum." (VOY: "Dark Frontier")

 

[Jedi_Master]

I am glad you brought that up!...





A Ferengi coin

"Well, if you don't need money, then you certainly don't need mine!"
– Nog, 2373 ("In the Cards")


In the 20th century and early in the 21st century, dollars were a commonly used form of money. (DS9: "Little Green Men"; ENT: "Carpenter Street")

During the 2020s, the United States of America used credit chips as a form of currency. (DS9: "Past Tense, Part I")

Money in the 21st century sense was not used on 24th century Earth. The exact nature of the Federationeconomy was difficult to describe; while money may not have entirely ceased to exist, it did not play the central role in the lives of Federation and Earth citizens that it once did. The descriptions given by various Federation citizens varied:

• During their excursion to 1986-era San Francisco, Kirk told Spock about 20th century Earth: "They're still using money. We need to get some." Later on, while Kirk was having dinner with Gillian Taylorand was unable to pay in the restaurant, Gillian asked sarcastically, "Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century," and Kirk earnestly replied, "Well, we don't." (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

• Jean-Luc Picard tried to explain to Ralph Offenhouse from the 20th century that there would be no need for his law firm any longer: "A lot has changed in three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of 'things'. We have eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions." (TNG: "The Neutral Zone")

• When Lily Sloane asked how much the USS Enterprise-E cost to build, Picard told her "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." (Star Trek: First Contact)

• When Nog suggested that Jake should bid for a baseball card in an auction, Jake said "I'm Human, I don't have any money." Nog replied "It's not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement." Jake said "Hey, watch it. There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." Nog then replied "What does that mean?" Jake responded "It means we don't need money!" Nog quickly pointed out, however, that Jake wouldn't be able to bid or borrow. (DS9: "In the Cards")

• Tom Paris said about the significance of Fort Knox: "When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century and money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum." (VOY: "Dark Frontier")

You are an evil, evil man.

 

[HIjol]

 

[BillJ]

Maybe i'm still not clear: their philosophy does not include overthrowing foreign governments, pre-emptive strikes, invasion/occupations of terrorist states, etc. Yes, there will always be research into weapons tech, there will always be the rogue Admiral (Marcus, Cartwright, Layton, Dougherty, Pressman.. boy they had a real problem with Admirals...)...

But Starfleet has had their hands in all of those things and it just isn't the "evil" Admiral bit. They stole military technology, were going to force a treaty port on the Eminians, Sisko poisoned the surface of a planet and assassinated a foreign government official, Picard was responsible for a change of planetary government on Ligon II.

 

[Albinator]

With regards to currency I always saw the Federation as having an economy not based on currency and money, but who still had to have some form of system in place to deal with outside cultures for trade and commerce.

So while it's not technically accurate that "money doesn't exist in the 24th century" it's fair to say that the Federation does not use currency as a basis for internal commerce. Not all Federation citizens would keep currency in their daily lives unless they expected to be dealing in commerce with other cultures.

But realistically it's also one of those things the writers never got quite straight from episode-to-episode.

 

[Albinator]

But Starfleet has had their hands in all of those things and it just isn't the "evil" Admiral bit. They stole military technology, were going to force a treaty port on the Eminians, Sisko poisoned the surface of a planet and assassinated a foreign government official, Picard was responsible for a change of planetary government on Ligon II.

Yes these things happen, but none are part of their primary mission and philosophy. I'm sure all of those incidents were investigated by the Federation Council.

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet seems to fight wars awfully well for it not be part of their primary mission and philosophy. I just don't think you can flip a switch like that. You have to be trained well to be able to handle those scenarios.

 

[Jay]

"Admiral Kirk has been charged with nine violations of Starfleet regulations."
"Starfleet regulations! That's outrageous!"