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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Matthew Raymond said:
I think that the whole idea that less money and less time makes better art is overly simplistic. After all, videos with no money and five seconds weren't good enough to keep Vine alive. YouTube is littered with videos that are made with no money and only last a few minutes, and most of them have been viewed by a number so small you can fit them all in a van.

I think the real reason that shorter stories and videos tend to be better than longer versions of the same material is because the storytelling must make better use of its time. In other words, a time constraint can force you to be an effective storyteller. However, if you were to try to cram a Hero's Journey plot into 15 minutes, the result would be either an incomprehensible mess or a deliberately farcical, time-compressed riff on the Hero's Journey. What it would not be is a genuine, epic hero's tale, because you lack the time. Constraints can give, but they can also take away.

Constraints can be good so long as they don't significantly impede the art you're trying to create. Depending on what you're trying to accomplish, those restraints can just as easily be crippling, or even an outright prohibition.
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I think the secret is to make a story specifically for the shorter time,rather than to try to cut down a longer story to make it fit.
 
JD said:
I think the secret is to make a story specifically for the shorter time, rather than to try to cut down a longer story to make it fit.
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Yeah, but then you're choosing a story to fit the run length rather than choosing a run length to fit your story. You'll always limitations regarding resources and time, but in the advent of digital photography, you can record days of footage with a few cell phones and put it all on a few of portable USB hard drives, so the cost of actual film is basically nonexistent. Limiting run length is entirely arbitrary, especially if you're a computer graphics guy and you can just film people against a green screen and do all the sets and backgrounds as CGI in post production on your own personal time.

No, wait, you can't do that, because if you do CGI for a living, you're a "professional", and that would make the Spirit of Fan Films(TM) very sad. :(
 
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Oh, I agree with you on all of that. The important thing here is to know if you're limited on time or not. In the case of Axanar they do have a very specific time limit.
 
JD said:
Oh, I agree with you on all of that. The important thing here is to know if you're limited on time or not. In the case of Axanar they do have a very specific time limit.
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Yeah, sorry, much of that comment wasn't really aimed at you in particular. I guess I've gotten so used to people being defensive about the guidelines that I've gotten... counterdefensive. Is that a word?
 
Matthew Raymond said:
Yeah, but then you're choosing a story to fit the run length rather than choosing a run length to fit your story. You'll always limitations regarding resources and time, but in the advent of digital photography, you can record days of footage with a few cell phones and put it all on a few of portable USB hard drives, so the cost of actual film is basically nonexistent. Limiting run length is entirely arbitrary, especially if you're a computer graphics guy and you can just film people against a green screen and do all the sets and backgrounds as CGI in post production on your own personal time.

No, wait, you can't do that, because if you do CGI for a living, you're a "professional", and that would make the Spirit of Fan Films(TM) very sad. :(
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This is not as easy as you state.
 
Matthew Raymond said:
YYou'll always limitations regarding resources and time, but in the advent of digital photography, you can record days of footage with a few cell phones and put it all on a few of portable USB hard drives, so the cost of actual film is basically nonexistent.
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Problem is, the cost of storing the digital files starts ramping up. If you're storing days-worth of HD or 4K footage, "a few portable USB hard drives" will not be enough - some features require terabytes of storage because of file sizes. That's gonna be a gigantic amount of digital data, and portable drives start getting pretty pricey as you go up in size.
 
I was being hyperbolic about "days" of video, but hard drive costs aren't quite as high as you suggest. You can get terabytes of external hard drive space for a few hundred bucks. Even if you wanted actual days of footage, it'll probably be a few thousand dollars in storage cost, plus the cost of high-capacity SD cards (if you're recording on cell phones or already have cameras with SD card storage). However, that's still way less than the cost of actual photographic film. Nobody's going to spend the cost of a Red Weapon just on digital storage, even if they're making a 2 to 3 hour film.

It would be mad for most people to be making fan films using 4K and high dynamic range. Without professional quality costumes, makeup and sets, even 1080 is a bit much. It's too easy to see all the flaws at that resolution and video quality, plus a lot of people still don't have the bandwidth to download 4K video. And what are you recording that video on? $700+ Ultra HD cell phones that run out of battery power after 30 minutes of recording? Furthermore, if you're not getting professional grade video from those phones, what's the point anyway? 4K would just make the subpar video look that much worse.
 
urbankringle said:
The thing to remember here is, Lord Axahat will never make the movie. It's all about income, keeping his head above water with donor funds, blaming his lack of progress on CBS/P and the lawsuit.
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I think in a way the lawsuit was the best thing to happen to Alec Peters, it gives him a quick easy excuse for why the movie hasn't been made and why he keeps saying he needs more money.
 
I thought Tony Todd specifically forbade the use of his likeness for any more Axanar-related activities. Had the main Axanar production been made without all the legal gyrations and other unpleasantness that ensued in recent years, this might have been an interesting historical documentary piece. Instead, now, it appears to be yet another propaganda puff piece from a gasping failure trying desperately to remain relevant. So sad...
 
Best quotes from the making of documentary:

“I love him [Alec]” - Christian Gossett

"Fan films are the purest form of love for Star Trek" - Alec Peters

“I don’t even call it a fan film, it is an independent production” - J. G. Hertzler

“People will buy into your vision” - Alec Peters

“When I met Alec I just thought, well, ah, this guy is going to be a problem. He is just trouble all other the place…”
– Gary Graham

“I kind of think that execution is often the easy part” - Alec Peters

“…Alec stalked me, it was terrifying, and then they kidnapped me and threatened my life if I did not agree to do this project” – Kate Vernon

“I went to law school” - Alec Peters

"I wish CBS would embrace us the same way that Lucas Film embraces Star Wars fan films, where they have a programme and they have guidelines; and they say ‘here are the guidelines, what to make a Star Wars fan film, then follow these guidelines'… …we can’t get CBS there yet”. - Alec Peters
 
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drt said:
I’ve always been more interested in what Meyer would have done in WoK with a larger budget, I think it would have looked considerably different if he wasn’t forced to use TMP leftovers (models, sets, etc.), it may have been much more Hornblower in space.
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As far as I'm concerned the film is a tour de force of prioritized budgeting. He got a brand new model (Reliant) and innovative early CGI and first-rate battle scenes courtesy of ILM. The only FX shot off the top of my head that didn't work that well was the underground matte shot. Even though many TMP assets were recycled, they still came across as different. The bridge was redressed, the new uniforms, the conversion of the Klingon bridge into the Regula I control room. Just the right amount of money was spent doing just what was necessary to give the Trek universe that soft-reboot into a nautical feel.
 
Hard to believe we are coming on the two year anniversary of the start of the case and one year anniversary of the settlement.
 
mos6507 said:
As far as I'm concerned the film is a tour de force of prioritized budgeting. He got a brand new model (Reliant) and innovative early CGI and first-rate battle scenes courtesy of ILM. The only FX shot off the top of my head that didn't work that well was the underground matte shot. Even though many TMP assets were recycled, they still came across as different. The bridge was redressed, the new uniforms, the conversion of the Klingon bridge into the Regula I control room. Just the right amount of money was spent doing just what was necessary to give the Trek universe that soft-reboot into a nautical feel.
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Actually, the Klingon bridge was recycled into the Enterprise reactor room and the torpedo bay, and its helm went to the Regula transporter.

But your point about economical re-use is well taken.
 
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