• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

Status
Not open for further replies.
jespah said:
What I want to know is why, when Mr. Lane makes an error on his blog, it's an error, but when @carlosp does, it's a lie.

Riddle me that, Batman.
Click to expand...
Excellent point. Fair question. The facts show both of them were misinformed and printed and supported the misinformation as fact until the misinformation was busted. Whereupon they both apologized and corrected their mistakes.

-> Identical <-

The ever more emotionally satisfying explanation in the short term for each point of view is saying those espousing the other point of view are clearly full of s*t.


But I'm absolutely sure the answer to that question is complicated and has much to do with point of view bias confirmation that comes from interpretation of data being influenced by the naturally formed filters each human develops from life experience to support an individual's, um, wait, I think you once called it individual world view?

So Mr. Lane's mistake was a mistake and Carlos' mistake was a lie.
----or------
The defendant perpetrated a fraud to discredit the author collecting the facts in thiswholething that themselves are not refutable.
-----or-------
Bad guys vs Good Guys (works well for each point of view)


It is confirmation bias interpreting data through naturally occurring personal filters formed from life experiences.

:lol: Here's where the Thread collectively rolls their eyes as I return again to 'the answers in this are really complicated'. And frustrating! And not nearly as fun or emotionally satisfying in the short term, right? No fuel for fireballs we can hurdle at each other. And don't think for even a second that in private conversations I don't verbally explode with the most gosh awful (read emotionally satisfyingly wonderful) expletives and unfiltered judgment pronouncements. 'Cause I do. I verbally punch the wall in my frustrations. Then I dust myself off, wash out my mouth with soap again, and get back to my choice of trying to understand how and why thiswholething is going on.... so I can figure out how I can have a chance of effecting a change.

Because my own point of view :) is:
Mytran said:
And learning is half the battle :beer:
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
This probably won't survive moderation, but here's my post to Slow Lane's blog:
"Carlos Pedraza, for some reason, was pushing hard for any information he could find out about the new facility."

I'd say a missing $1.4 million dollars is reason enough to pursue an ongoing story. It's called journalism. Look it up.

And just in case it comes up, yes. This story is newsworthy. Carlos Pedraza has done his homework, providing footnotes and links to everything in every article. One bad lead does not a liar make.

Alec Peters has made and spent a fortune, fabricating the story he wants to tell to whatever audience he has at the moment. Details change from one day to the next, but one thing is clear: Peters' narrative is the "truth" and anything else must by definition be a lie. If you don't believe the "truth" you are by default a hater.

I have but one question: With $1.4 million of donor money gone, where is the movie?

CBS and Paramount didn't prevent the film from being made. In fact, there was no injunction, and nothing in any of the legal documents stating that filming could not proceed. What then, exactly, did prevent filming?

For once, I would like to see an honest answer to honest questions instead of seeing people ridiculed and banned from fora.

I want to know where the money went. Please don't insult my intelligence with the ridiculous "financial statement" and "independent review." Neither would ever pass muster with a real world audit.

Frankly, this blog's continued spin of the history and events concerning Axanar is, politely, embarrassing to anyone who has followed the unfolding of the facts.

Thanks for your time.

LLAP
Click to expand...
 
I've seen this all before...
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Well, the post survived moderation, but no reply yet from Slow Lane or anyone else. Just more blathering from the willingly indoctrinated, the zombified, the drinkers of the sweet, sweet nectar of ignorance that is the bliss of those faithful to the truth of Axanar.

Damn, that's sad.
 
Csalem said:
FanFilmFactor has a long post on Carlos and the fake story:
http://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/04/29/hoist-with-his-own-picard-editorial/#more-4165
Click to expand...

Against my better judgement, I went to that link, skimmed through it and came across a mention of Gabe Koerner. Out of curiosity, I googled "Gabe Koerner + Axanar" and came across THIS (which did make it all kinda worthwhile:)):

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Over the years I have seen overzealous fans of certain productions act as if it were their duty to make posts in order to bash another productions. I highly doubt any of these "Bashing Orders" came from any fan production staff members itself. I've chalked it up to simply fans who felt a since of pride and duty to their favorite fan film to tear down another persons work in the hopes it would aid to build up a fan film they have long supported. Sweet bitterness I know but highly illogical.
Still, never in my day have I ever seen as J. Lane has dropped bombshell size innuendos that the executive CEO of a star trek production himself was complicit in setting up a trap and devising a scheme to defame a member of the fan film community.
If true, I could only consider this deception paramount with the infamous 18 minutes of missing tape. As time goes on we may wish to remember this heinous act against all true fan films may have been inadvertently exposed right there on fanfilmfactor.com.
 
Last edited:
I got the answers I expected -- no answers at all.

"Yeah, watch the video." -Slow Lane
"Freaking read for a change." -Informed fan
"donations do not have to produce ANYTHING." -JT
 
ernie90125 said:
I made the mistake of believing, because of the use of the trademark, that Axanar was licensed by the rights holders. That's the whole point of a trademark...to show the origin of trade.

I was unsure how to “order” a Star Trek Axanar feature length DVD, because it was long after the Kickstarter or IndieGoGo campaigns had finished, but I was given the email address of a lady called Diane and she told me I could place my “order” on www.startrekaxanar.com

(A domain name that is still active, despite use of the trademark preceding the word Axanar, which I thought they denied was happening in the court case.)

Both Diane and I used the word “order” and I reiterate I was acting in good faith.

Well, I’ve read the summary judgment against Alec Peters, and that he has caused the end of fanfilms as we knew them (to which the rights holder had not previously objected), and that he cannot make the ‘feature length’ DVD I ordered.

I asked Diane for a refund, but the emails back from Mr Peters have been extraordinary – telling me I donated through Kickstarter and IndieGoGo, even though I had no connection to those services…saying I have no respect for the last 3 years of his life…claiming that because of the lawsuit (I responded I understand it to be because of rent for a standing empty warehouse) he has no money to make the film…yet point blank refusing to refund the “order” of a product he cannot legally create or fulfil as described. (Although he claims it will still be released on DVD, but not feature length)

Shocking.

I chanced upon this image and I feel it summed up my thoughts.

axanar_excuseme_daytonward.jpg
Click to expand...

File a complaint with the good folks at the California Attorney General's office. They are there to help you.

https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company
 
urbandefault said:
"donations do not have to produce ANYTHING." -JT
Click to expand...
To be fair, that's technically true. Backing any kind of Kickstarter is a gamble. However, the issue comes with then continuing to support a team with such a bad track record, even as they pretend that there's nothing wrong with blowing 7 figures and everything is great.

The fact that Alec still raised 22k, while Tommy Kraft struggles to raise more than 6k is pretty shocking. And perhaps goes to show that if Alec thinks he's going to be able to continue crowd funding his operation using an original property, he may find it a lot harder than he anticipates.

(But then, he did just raise 22k for a studio that was clearly on its last legs, so I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Regardless of anything else, he's still clearly one heck of a salesman).
 
Reilly said:
To be fair, that's technically true.
Click to expand...
Not according to the Kickstarter terms, which holds Kickstarter out as an agency and states that any crowdfunding is a contractual relationship between the offerer of the project and the donating party. At the very least perks have to be fulfilled and the donating party is offering consideration on that basis. It's one of the reasons there needs to be more civil litigation relating to crowdfunding to set precedents and fully define the extent of that contractual relationship.
 
Attorney General Makes Crowdfunded Company pay for Shady Deal: On April 30, 2014, the Washington State Attorney General, Bob Ferguson, brought the first enforcement action in the nation, against Altius Management, to pay for irregularities arising from the 2012 “Asylum Playing Cards” Kickstarter campaign. Ferguson won his case, and defense had to pay $54,851. See: http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-makes-crowdfunded-company-pay-shady-deal Ferguson stated:

Washington state will not tolerate crowdfunding theft. If you accept money from consumers, and don’t follow through on your obligations, my office will hold you accountable.
Click to expand...

Feds take first action against a failed Kickstarter with $112K judgment: the federal government got involved in June of 2015. Since this case involved a misuse of funds, the Federal Trade Commission intervened, and sued for $122,000. The verdict totaled close to $112,000. Also, a part of the verdict involved the defense having to honor all stated refund policies. See: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...inst-a-failed-kickstarter-with-112k-judgment/

Crowdfunding Lawsuit on question of Active Participant vs. Passive Platform: in August of 2015, a charitable crowdfunding entity, GiveForward, got into legal hot water with a fraudulent campaign. It seems an estranged father ran a campaign for donations for an 8-year-old child with a heart condition. Except the child had no such condition. Once the mother determined the campaign existed, and GiveForward's own fraud meter kicked in, the jig was, as we say, up. However, the mother brought suit against the crowdfunding platform, alleging they were complicit in the fraud. The judge found the platform remained passive (even though they assigned a 'coach'. Still, the father never used the 'coach's' services) and did not take part in the fraud. See: https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/20...big-liability-risk-for-crowdfunding-platforms

Kickstarter cooler: in October of 2016, the Oregon Justice Department launched an investigation into the 'Coolest Cooler'. Because although some backers never received their perks, the product retailed on Amazon at a discount. And the company also told its backers they could always pay nearly $400 and get a cooler. In October of 2016, about 60% of the backers had their coolers. The most recent Kickstarter comments date to May 2016 and the backers were calling for blood. However, I have not yet located an update for this story. See: ttps://www.engadget.com/2016/10/03/coolest-kickstarter-oregon-investigation/ and https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-cooler-thats-actually/posts/1576317/comments
 
jespah said:
Attorney General Makes Crowdfunded Company pay for Shady Deal: On April 30, 2014, the Washington State Attorney General, Bob Ferguson, brought the first enforcement action in the nation, against Altius Management, to pay for irregularities arising from the 2012 “Asylum Playing Cards” Kickstarter campaign. Ferguson won his case, and defense had to pay $54,851. See: http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-makes-crowdfunded-company-pay-shady-deal Ferguson stated:



Feds take first action against a failed Kickstarter with $112K judgment: the federal government got involved in June of 2015. Since this case involved a misuse of funds, the Federal Trade Commission intervened, and sued for $122,000. The verdict totaled close to $112,000. Also, a part of the verdict involved the defense having to honor all stated refund policies. See: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...inst-a-failed-kickstarter-with-112k-judgment/

Crowdfunding Lawsuit on question of Active Participant vs. Passive Platform: in August of 2015, a charitable crowdfunding entity, GiveForward, got into legal hot water with a fraudulent campaign. It seems an estranged father ran a campaign for donations for an 8-year-old child with a heart condition. Except the child had no such condition. Once the mother determined the campaign existed, and GiveForward's own fraud meter kicked in, the jig was, as we say, up. However, the mother brought suit against the crowdfunding platform, alleging they were complicit in the fraud. The judge found the platform remained passive (even though they assigned a 'coach'. Still, the father never used the 'coach's' services) and did not take part in the fraud. See: https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/20...big-liability-risk-for-crowdfunding-platforms

Kickstarter cooler: in October of 2016, the Oregon Justice Department launched an investigation into the 'Coolest Cooler'. Because although some backers never received their perks, the product retailed on Amazon at a discount. And the company also told its backers they could always pay nearly $400 and get a cooler. In October of 2016, about 60% of the backers had their coolers. The most recent Kickstarter comments date to May 2016 and the backers were calling for blood. However, I have not yet located an update for this story. See: ttps://www.engadget.com/2016/10/03/coolest-kickstarter-oregon-investigation/ and https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-cooler-thats-actually/posts/1576317/comments
Click to expand...

If Axanar fails to deliver all those physical perks they might have a hugh refund problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top