CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Red Shirt]

Also, I believe the limit is $50,000 -- I'm not sure that the "two 15 mins = $100,000" logic is sound.

You are correct.

http://www.startrek.com/fan-films

Guidelines for Avoiding Objections:

1. The fan production must be less than 15 minutes for a single self-contained story, or no more than 2 segments, episodes or parts, not to exceed 30 minutes total, with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes.

6. The fan production must be non-commercial:

CBS and Paramount Pictures do not object to limited fundraising for the creation of a fan production, whether 1 or 2 segments and consistent with these guidelines, so long as the total amount does not exceed $50,000, including all platform fees, and when the $50,000 goal is reached, all fundraising must cease.

 

[dmac]

No mater what, once money becomes involved, there is no limit to ones creativity to tap into it, if that's their goal.
Being allowed to raise $50,000 per 15 mins (or less) of content seems high, I have a hard time imagining the amount of hype a 15 minute vignette will require to reach that lofty goal but there it is.....GOLD! Sashimi Sushi.... I.P. tea...lol

 

[muCephi]

Also, I believe the limit is $50,000 -- I'm not sure that the "two 15 mins = $100,000" logic is sound.

Thanks. That was just a short circuit in my recollection of the $ limit for a single story.

Too much coffee upon the firmament

 

[muCephi]

No mater what, once money becomes involved, there is no limit to ones creativity to tap into it, if that's their goal.
Being allowed to raise $50,000 per 15 mins (or less) of content seems high, I have a hard time imagining the amount of hype a 15 minute vignette will require to reach that lofty goal but there it is.....GOLD! Sashimi Sushi.... I.P. tea...lol

Probably best to shoot for 80/20; using crowdfunding to constantly reap more 'private' donors seems more like 20/80. But that's just my casual observation. The projects and studios will probably work it out if Axanar decides to make another barn door with their reverse gear.

 

[RedForman]

Well alrighty then.........

I do wonder too why Axanar isn't considered a porn parody given how many people got screwed over it...........(are all the Axa-lites this clueless?)

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Jesus...........the hubris here is vomit-inducing........

I do wonder too why Axanar isn't considered a porn parody given how many people got screwed over it...........(are all the Axa-lites this clueless?)

Who owns Star Trek, Alec? Please tell me.

Who owns Star Trek, owns that ship design. You sure as fraking don't.

This man is borderline intellectually disabled.

 

[Jedman67]

Re. Ares whatever whatever 2.0 private list management/fundraising and fan films:

Let's make this clear for the studios. Call it Guidelines 2.0, Fundraising Conditions:

Reuse of prior crowdfund-sourced donors needs to count against the crowdfunding total the next time around. Otherwise there is no cap on the ability to work crowdfunding for ever more donors rolled over into the lists, and thus ever more money.

Since it is logistically impossible to audit which people on a private funding list may have been derived from a crowdfunding source, the alternative is to require one of two options for any given film:

1. CROWDFUND ONLY. If you make a crowdfund, you can use your donor list but they have to donate only through the capped crowdfunding mechanism.

2. PRIVATE DONATIONS ONLY. Use your lists and other fundraising mechanisms however you like, but do not use crowdfunding. Stay off those sites for any film you crowdfund.

The following 2 conditions should also apply:

1. NO "FUTURE USE / ROLLOVER / SUPPORT OUR INFRASTRUCTURE" DONATIONS IF THE FUNDRAISER IS FOR A TREK FAN FILM, CROWDFUNDED OR PRIVATE. All fundraising must be for the one current project. No building up a slush fund or spending it on permanent real property infrastucture assets (like a studio or its business or industrial fittings). The funds are exactly for making the film. Want to build up a set of assets for a 'fan film' nonprofit arts organization? Do that separately without mentioning Trek. Want your own for profit studio atop the Trek IP value? The same, and BTW, we won't be so lenient the next time someone tries this.

2. NO OVERLAPPING FUNDRAISERS FOR DIFFERENT FILMS FROM THE SAME GROUP. The goal of the guidelines is to support small groups of hobbyists doing one project at a time, not a big production operation with a bunch of parallel projects.


The net result will be that if private donations can do better than crowdfunding, crowdfunding will be set aside until the donor list needs to be refreshed. Then at least 1 donation cycle to refresh the donor list with new crowdfunding signups alongside remaining donors will occur. It should keep the donation level around the cap so long as the film maker is using crowdfunding to obtain its cash.

The official guidelines are already somewhat restrictive. Let's let CBS worry about who is and isn't following the rules* (*feel free to call out blatant rulebreaking like Axanar, but leave all else alone).
Those who make the smaller budget fan films will be the hardest affected by this.

 

[KennyB]

Lol - looks like someone created a new 'Axanar' twitter account - but it probably isn't Alec Peters, as all the tweets are exposing the 'scam'. - Lol!

https://twitter.com/startrekaxanar?lang=en

Yes since they had to give that up as part of the settlement.........."someone" swooped in and secured the old URLs of various sites.........these kids today.

 

[BillJ]

I aspire to one day have as little in the way of morals as Alec Peters does. Really. I figure ripping people off would make my life a heck of a lot more cushy.

 

[KennyB]

Well alrighty then.........

I do wonder too why Axanar isn't considered a porn parody given how many people got screwed over it...........(are all the Axa-lites this clueless?)

Sean designed the bastard........period (for FREE). Tobias rendered it for the VFX.....(and was paid)......and both are directly influenced by the work of many other artists going back to the Reliant.......I don't know WTF Alec did.

 

[BillJ]

I don't know WTF Alec did.

Bought and consumed sushi. The most important part of the creative process.

 

[carlosp]

Also, I believe the limit is $50,000 -- I'm not sure that the "two 15 mins = $100,000" logic is sound.

It's specifically what John Van Citters said in the Engage podcast: $50K per 15 mins.

 

[carlosp]

I think the real issue is about the logistics of crowd funding under the guidelines. While I've verified the $50K/15 mins guideline,I believe the intent is that one cannot raise all $100,000 in a single campaign; one needs to run a separate campaign for each episode, stopping each one when it reaches $50,000. One cannot raise $60,000 in one and $40,000 in another.

 

[muCephi]

Well alrighty then.........

I do wonder too why Axanar isn't considered a porn parody given how many people got screwed over it...........(are all the Axa-lites this clueless?)

Gosh darn, real Trek loves us so much they are doing an homage by using our design, and we are so humble we won't even sue them over it.

Was anyone able to read the above sentence, or is there just a hyperspace rift where the hypocrisy convolutions tore one open?

And re the Reece argument "you weren't there so you can't know who did what... so shut up": tell it to the IRS and the regulatory agencies and the class action when they come knocking.

The official guidelines are already somewhat restrictive. Let's let CBS worry about who is and isn't following the rules* (*feel free to call out blatant rulebreaking like Axanar, but leave all else alone).
Those who make the smaller budget fan films will be the hardest affected by this.

Totally agree with the sentiment, but if anyone is able to roll over crowdfundings and get 50k, 90k, 130k, etc per film as they move forward using crowdfunding and email-from-prior-crowdfunding, I think it will kill crowdfunding for everyone. And clearly Axanar intends to do this. I'm not attached to the suggested strategy, but it seems like forcing all donors to donate thru crowdfunding if you are running crowdfunding could nip this exposure in the bud. Maybe give a trap door for large donations 10k+ to be considered "privately garnered" for the sake of the guidelines, but don't let a back end email operation be a "private crowdfunding" operation. For smaller operations this wouldn't affect them, they would still be able to raise funds up to the limit anyway. It would only enforce the cap better where big fundraising operations are going on.

 

[Csalem]

FanFilmFactor has the first part of interview with Alec Peters up:
http://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/02/02...it-and-settlement-interview-part-1/#more-3297

 

[Jedman67]

Totally agree with the sentiment, but if anyone is able to roll over crowdfundings and get 50k, 90k, 130k, etc per film as they move forward using crowdfunding and email-from-prior-crowdfunding, I think it will kill crowdfunding for everyone. And clearly Axanar intends to do this. I'm not attached to the suggested strategy, but it seems like forcing all donors to donate thru crowdfunding if you are running crowdfunding could nip this exposure in the bud. Maybe give a trap door for large donations 10k+ to be considered "privately garnered" for the sake of the guidelines, but don't let a back end email operation be a "private crowdfunding" operation. For smaller operations this wouldn't affect them, they would still be able to raise funds up to the limit anyway. It would only enforce the cap better where big fundraising operations are going on.

I think axanar is a special case and hopefully social media will be able to arrest any progress he makes.

 

[dmac]

Now

FanFilmFactor has the first part of interview with Alec Peters up:
http://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/02/02...it-and-settlement-interview-part-1/#more-3297

Now, there's your Trouble....

"ALEC: That’s half-right. Actually, while the Axanar feature film is limited to just two 15-minute segments, those guidelines relate exclusively to fan films and not to other forms of media. From an artistic, story-telling point of view, we’ve been given an interesting challenge by CBS and Paramount: live within these guidelines and try to tell your story.

When you think of what we accomplished with Prelude to Axanar, I think we can tell a pretty compelling story in 30 minutes. That is 50% more film than Prelude. And there are ways to tell the larger story of Axanar and the Four Years War in much more depth now…and a piece of that storytelling will be done via the two 15-minute video segments."
It's a little thing called math, Prelude was 2o minutes long, the feature film is allowed 30 minutes so lets see that's an extra 10 minutes
10/30 = .3 * 100 = 30%
You start dealing with millions of dollars and when the math is off by 20%, it tends to add up.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

1) 10/30 does not equal .3. You're rounding off an infinite decimal. It's 33.33333...%.
2) Last time I checked, 10 minutes was 50% of 20 minutes.

 

[urbandefault]

"ALEC: That’s half-right. Actually, while the Axanar feature film is limited to just two 15-minute segments, those guidelines relate exclusively to fan films and not to other forms of media. From an artistic, story-telling point of view, we’ve been given an interesting challenge by CBS and Paramount: live within these guidelines and try to tell your story.

When you think of what we accomplished with Prelude to Axanar, I think we can tell a pretty compelling story in 30 minutes. That is 50% more film than Prelude. And there are ways to tell the larger story of Axanar and the Four Years War in much more depth now…and a piece of that storytelling will be done via the two 15-minute video segments."

So, yeah. He could have done that already instead of spending more than $1.4 million on nothing. But that wouldn't have been any fun, now would it?

 

[Woulfe]

It's Groundhog Day... Again... It's Groundhog Day... Again... It's Groundhog Day... Again... It's Groundhog Day... Again...
Da' Ja' Vu'... All over again... Dang time loops... 3 3 3 3 3 3... Wait isn't this were we started... PETERS!!! ;-)