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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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dmac said:
Friends don't force friends to donate on a platform that's a breeding ground for fraud and deceptive practices.(nothing to do with Axanar in my comment) Maybe they have done something about it in the last few years, I wouldn't know.
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To be fair to Kickstarter, the failure rate of its projects is fairly low, hovering around 10 percent (admittedly a bit higher for films at 11-12 percent). It's not the breeding ground for fraud that you think it is just because Axanar went south.
 
carlosp said:
Kickstarter could make the case it didn't know for Prelude, but it surely knew about Axanar because it too courted Peters for that second campaign. Focusing that much attention on the project would've been impossible without reading Risks part of each campaign — both point out that Axanar was unlicensed.
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And that would be the counter argument in any case that asserted Peters deceived them - and would obviously have to be demonstrated in evidence. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Peters nonetheless "signed" their terms. What if one day before he signed them he was granted permission? Would they be aware of that just because they had read the campaign documents?
 
Smoked Salmon said:
And that would be the counter argument in any case that asserted Peters deceived them - and would obviously have to be demonstrated in evidence. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Peters nonetheless "signed" their terms. What if one day before he signed them he was granted permission? Would they be aware of that just because they had read the campaign documents?
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Peters probably deceived himself more than anyone else, Free money from fund raisers must do things to people, seems similar to gold fever or a gambling addiction. It's sad to see people tossing all rhyme and reason out the window just for that next big score. They don't intend to hurt anyone, it's just that It's all about them and if you're not for them, your usefulness is over.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
And that would be the counter argument in any case that asserted Peters deceived them - and would obviously have to be demonstrated in evidence. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Peters nonetheless "signed" their terms. What if one day before he signed them he was granted permission? Would they be aware of that just because they had read the campaign documents?
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Safe harbor absolves Kickstarter and Indiegogo from having to uncover the copyright status of content on their platforms. But once they cross the line into knowingly interacting with individual projects, become more hands on, then their safe harbor isn't so safe anymore:
The legal standard for the knowledge requirement is objective, and is satisfied where the defendant knows or has reason to know of the infringing activity.​

Certainly by courting Axanar, both crowdfunders had reason to know of Peters' infringing activity; would they have tried so hard to recruit him without having read his campaign pages, both of which explicitly stated Axanar was unlicensed?
 
carlosp said:
Safe harbor absolves Kickstarter and Indiegogo from having to uncover the copyright status of content on their platforms. But once they cross the line into knowingly interacting with individual projects, become more hands on, then their safe harbor isn't so safe anymore:
The legal standard for the knowledge requirement is objective, and is satisfied where the defendant knows or has reason to know of the infringing activity.​

Certainly by courting Axanar, both crowdfunders had reason to know of Peters' infringing activity; would they have tried so hard to recruit him without having read his campaign pages, both of which explicitly stated Axanar was unlicensed?
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You haven't answered my question. What if between them reading those documents and Peters agreeing to the terms he acquired permission? Nobody at KS held a gun to his head and told him to agree to the terms.

What I'm getting at is the notion that that the trigger date is not when they courted Peters, but when Peters agreed to their terms. Your own link talks of an objective test.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
You haven't answered my question. What if between them reading those documents and Peters agreeing to the terms he acquired permission? Nobody at KS held a gun to his head and told him to agree to the terms.

What I'm getting at is the notion that that the trigger date is not when they courted Peters, but when Peters agreed to their terms. Your own link talks of an objective test.
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Oh, I thought your question was rhetorical rather than hypothetical.

As I recall, you don't agree to the terms until you start creating your campaign pages. If Indiegogo hypothetically never read the entire campaign document I suppose they could escape liability. Except that they would've read (or should've) the previous Kickstarter campaigns, where a similar disclosure was made. Same with Kickstarter after Peters' second campaign.
 
Smoked Salmon said:
I think this is where regulation of crowdfunding should come into pay, and of course right now there is none. There is no current regulatory duty to perform due diligence so they can hide behind their terms of service.
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As I mentioned before, the FTC held a "forum" on October 26 to discuss crowdfunding. Kickstarter's general counsel was among the speakers. I'm curious to read a transcript of the event to see if IP issues were discussed.
 
carlosp said:
Axanar Settlement Close?
In brief Facebook post, Peters says settlement is close, cautions fans to "manage expectations." Updated the AxaMonitor story on Monday's settlement talks.
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So the story is drawing to a close. We should all meet up on the one-year anniversary of settlement (on here, obviously) and talk about the old days....
 
dmac said:
Friends don't force friends to donate on a platform that's a breeding ground for fraud and deceptive practices.(nothing to do with Axanar in my comment) Maybe they have done something about it in the last few years, I wouldn't know.
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Well. My friends, as far as I know, aren't committing fraud. And I do think the good and well meaning FAR outweigh the ill intentioned.

That doesn't however change my opinion that no stolen IP should be up on KS. That shit ain't right.
 
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