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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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It likely wouldn't be two front war, since it would be much easier to litigate for non-delivery after he loses this trial.
I agree though that he probably isn't in a position to fight it since he needs pro bono help now.

I'm just wondering on a practical level that if they did sue him whether or not there would be enough value in his assets to realise the cash? It may be that there would be a personal and corporate bankruptcy, which would be unfortunately for the donors.
When the FTC seeks restitution on behalf of consumers, it can essentially freeze any assets traceable to the illegal activity. It generally appoints a receive to assume control of the frozen assets and pays back consumers to the extent possible.

In addition, a civil judgment cannot be discharged in bankruptcy if it arises from the debtor obtaining property through "false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud." The FTC has been pretty ruthless in obtaining non-dischargeability orders for its judgments on those grounds. Which means the FTC could effectively hound AP for years until he pays back all of the money to donors.
 
When the FTC seeks restitution on behalf of consumers, it can essentially freeze any assets traceable to the illegal activity. It generally appoints a receive to assume control of the frozen assets and pays back consumer to the extent possible.

In addition, a civil judgment cannot be discharged in bankruptcy if it arises from the debtor obtaining property through "false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud." The FTC has been pretty ruthless in obtaining non-dischargeability orders for its judgments on those grounds. Which means the FTC could effectively hound AP for years until he pays back all of the money to donors.
My concern is where the cash may not have been spent on sitting assets. Rent, utilities, expenses, etc.
 
When the FTC seeks restitution on behalf of consumers, it can essentially freeze any assets traceable to the illegal activity. It generally appoints a receive to assume control of the frozen assets and pays back consumers to the extent possible.

In addition, a civil judgment cannot be discharged in bankruptcy if it arises from the debtor obtaining property through "false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud." The FTC has been pretty ruthless in obtaining non-dischargeability orders for its judgments on those grounds. Which means the FTC could effectively hound AP for years until he pays back all of the money to donors.

If they moved now, could they preempt the studios from collecting damages?
 
My concern is where the cash may not have been spent on sitting assets. Rent, utilities, expenses, etc.
Well, there may be nothing that the FTC can do about already dissipated assets. But the typical FTC order lasts for 18-20 years, during which time the defendant is require to file annual reports on their assets. Lying on those reports-i.e., hiding asses to avoid paying the judgment--is a crime. So either a defendant pays back consumers as soon as is practicable or they spent 20 years living under the threat of prosecution.
 
If they moved now, could they preempt the studios from collecting damages?
Well, an FTC action would not preempt the studios from seeking or obtaining a civil judgment against AP, as they are doing now. But such a judgment would unlikely ever be collected. Then again, I doubt the studios would mind if the FTC got involved and shut down AP once and for all.
 
Carlos' article said, I believe, that W&S provided a 'revised' financial statement that they didn't deem eyes only, so the demands of the studios were therefore moot on the point of changing the original document to 'confidential'.

Since the judge ruled that the original document was not eyes only, do the studios now have redacted-for-embarrassment and nonredacted sets of books to legitimately compare? Did the second document come with a retraction of the first, or is it now not recallable?

If they have both to question and compare, *that* should be interesting.
 
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Of course you don't, because you have no legal training and you want to see Peters fail.

But when I talk of merit, I do not necessarily mean they will succeed. I mean that there is an argument to advance.

No, I do not have legal training. I've been quite clear about that. I do, however, have an opinion. I also live in the US, and have witnessed US law in action for my entire life. I'm well aware that the law doesn't always follow the rules of logic and consistency (unfortunately), but that's why we're all watching this, isn't it? Otherwise the outcome would be a foregone conclusion.

As for what I want, it isn't to see Peters "fail".

If someone convinced me tomorrow that Peters didn't actually do anything wrong, then I'd support him (from a distance probably, given his tendency at being, as @Karzak put it, a dick). I don't know him, nor does he have any of my money. He does, however, have a history of business practices that are dubious at best, and appear designed to fleece the fan community at worst. I'm not okay with that, and he could use a bit more than a slap on the wrist to get the message across that it's not acceptable behavior. What I want, is to see future potential customers protected from his allegedly predatory practices.

(edit: since I can see the response coming, yes, I know that's not what this case is about. That is, however, my motivation for wanting to see him called on the carpet.)

And yes, I'll admit that I think he deserves a good smack for (in my opinion) pushing the studios to set out hard and fast rules, but in that sense I'll settle for the look on his face when he realizes that no amount of bluster is going to convince sane people that he's the fan film messiah, because we've all seen through the bullshit.

I have no interest in seeing his life destroyed, though, and I have faith that the court will act appropriately there.

But back to the topic at hand...

"But Mom, little Billy didn't get in trouble! I shouldn't either!" is not (or at least should not be) a valid legal defense in terms of determining if someone broke the law. Damage (or sentence) mitigation is another story entirely.

Here's how the Ninth Circuit recently described the standard for "willful" infringement:
To prove `willfulness' under the Copyright Act, the plaintiff must show (1) that the defendant was actually aware of the infringing activity, or (2) that the defendant's actions were the result of `reckless disregard' for, or `willful blindness' to, the copyright holder's rights.

That test passes from point the first. Alec was indisputably aware that he was infringing someone else's IP (he openly said so in his kickstarter and, I believe, various other places). If the court follows this finding, then that's willful infringement, which renders the "but they did it too" argument worthless in this context.

About the only valid argument I can see them having at this point is that the studios had somehow given tacit agreement through their inaction.

Since copyright law apparently may be enforced (or not) at the copyright holder's discretion, I can't see how the latter can prevail as an argument -- because if it did, it would effectively mean that copyright holders, like trademark holders, must always enforce their copyrights or risk losing their effectiveness. That goes against the spirit -- and possibly the letter -- of current copyright law as I understand it (though stranger things have happened, of course).

They can make the argument, sure, but I don't think it'll do much for them.

In terms of damage mitigation, well, that's another story. It kinda boils down to "Everyone else was stealing cars and not getting caught, so I had a reasonable expectation that I would get away with it too, so you should go easy on me." Not sure how the court will see that; probably depends on how convincing W&S can be.

JMO.
 
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Since copyright law apparently may be enforced (or not) at the copyright holder's discretion, I can't see how the latter can prevail as an argument -- because if it did, it would effectively mean that copyright holders, like trademark holders, must always enforce their copyrights or risk losing their effectiveness. That goes against the spirit -- and possibly the letter -- of current copyright law as I understand it (though stranger things have happened, of course).
Indeed. As the judge in a prior Trek-related copyright law said:
Defendants [] allege that Paramount's failure to commence litigation against other potentially infringing books estops them from bringing this action. Extending the doctrine of estoppel so that a defendant may rely on a plaintiff's conduct toward another party is both unsupported by law and pernicious as a matter of policy.

"The mere fact that Defendants heard from third parties that no one had complained about their arguable infringing productions does not in any way estop Plaintiffs from enforcing their rights against Defendants." Showcase Atlanta, 217 U.S.P.Q. at 859. Allowing such a defense would compel courts to examine all the other allegedly infringing works on which defendant's reliance was based in order to ascertain whether these works were in fact infringing, thereby creating a number of smaller infringement hearings within a single copyright action. Moreover, there is no legal duty to instigate legal proceedings. Perhaps it is the case, as Defendants intimated, that Paramount has chosen to eschew litigation with larger publishing houses, and instead bring suit against a relatively small firm. It matters not. Provided it does not violate any other provision of law, Paramount is free to instigate legal action against whomever it wishes.
This is an important point, because what AP wants to do, similar to the defendant above, is to make this case about other parties' alleged infringement. The judge above refused to do so, and there's no reason to believe that the judge here will either.
 
...About the only valid argument I can see them having at this point is that the studios had somehow given tacit agreement through their inaction...

I think they have been saying they intend to make this kind of point through "fair use" (probably in appeals) rather than by claiming any failure to enforce copyright. And they seem to have been playing their cards close on this, as you might expect.

The rest, I think, is trying to lay down fire breaks and put out brush fires until the fire passes. They seem to have a bit of a brush fire starter in their midst, tho. And fire breaks won't help if there's a ton of incendiary emails hidden on the roof, just waiting for the wind to drop an ember.
 
All that has to be done is to convince the jurors that it's unfair that CBS/P has gone after Axanar while ignoring all the other fan films. And that's a scenario I cannot dismiss. Of course, such a judgment against CBS/P will result in the mandatory shutdown of all fan films.
 
All that has to be done is to convince the jurors that it's unfair that CBS/P has gone after Axanar while ignoring all the other fan films. And that's a scenario I cannot dismiss. Of course, such a judgment against CBS/P will result in the mandatory shutdown of all fan films.
I am reasonably confidant no judge would ever allow a jury to hear that argument. There is simply no case law supporting the proposition that copyright enforcement needs to be "fair" or equally applied to all potential infringers. The judge in the Carol Publishing lawsuit expressly rejected this as a defense.
 
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intent to defraud
and
This implies that if someone steals my car enough times, it shouldn't be a crime. I may think there is room for improvement in the fairness of intellectual property law, but I certainly do not advocate wholesale theft being legal just because it's a popular pastime.

If CBS Discovery is delayed and people subscribe to all access without getting the show can they get refunds and will the FTC step in?
 
I think they have been saying they intend to make this kind of point through "fair use" (probably in appeals) rather than by claiming any failure to enforce copyright. And they seem to have been playing their cards close on this, as you might expect.

Those are two different things, though, aren't they? Even if the IP holder does give permission to one or more parties, it does not then follow that every next use in the same manner is automatically fair use.

Dunno. If I'm understanding what you're saying, then I'm not seeing where there's a logical argument there. It's kinda "fair use by appropriation", or perhaps "IP Squatters Rights". Out would come the lobbyists. Instantly. :devil:

I think I may be misunderstanding your point, though.

This implies that if someone steals my car enough times, it shouldn't be a crime. I may think there is room for improvement in the fairness of intellectual property law, but I certainly do not advocate wholesale theft being legal just because it's a popular pastime.

Okay, I recognize that quote as being mine, but I have absolutely no earthly idea why you quoted it.
 
If CBS Discovery is delayed and people subscribe to all access without getting the show can they get refunds and will the FTC step in?

Are you suggesting that CBS advertises a definite start date for the show, and subscriptions are made because of this, and then CBS announces a delay?

Those are two different things, though, aren't they? Even if the IP holder does give permission to one or more parties, it does not then follow that every next use in the same manner is automatically fair use.

Dunno. If I'm understanding what you're saying, then I'm not seeing where there's a logical argument there. It's kinda "fair use by appropriation", or perhaps "IP Squatters Rights". Out would come the lobbyists. Instantly. :devil:

I think I may be misunderstanding your point, though.

Yes, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was suggesting Axanar is going after "its ok to do this" by fair use, rather than unenforced copyright. I wasn't suggesting they are using the same legal underpinnings.
 
My concern is where the cash may not have been spent on sitting assets. Rent, utilities, expenses, etc.
Did someone say "Cash"?

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Neil
 
Yes, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was suggesting Axanar is going after "its ok to do this" by fair use, rather than unenforced copyright. I wasn't suggesting they are using the same legal underpinnings.

Ah, that makes more sense, yes.

That's a much murkier topic, too. My instincts tell me they'll fail, but you never know...
 
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