CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Noname Given]

It's not something I'd bet the house on, and it probably is presumptuous. But moronic? I think that goes too far.

When Desilu gave Gulf + Western ownership of Trek, Trek was a badly failing first-run TV show about to head to the Friday Death Slot. When G+W spun off Trek over to Paramount, Trek was a pretty solid syndicated TV show with two movie sequels with no third in the works. It's not at all difficult to imagine some corporate lawyers not paying adequate attention to the transfers.

Of course, after that, Star Trek was indeed a big deal, but it's changed hands quite a number of times, and copyright transfer between giant media conglomerates is a complicated legal maneuver. As anyone who's worked in a big company knows, things get lost in the shuffle and not discovered for years. All Axanar needs to find is one error at one point in the chain of copyright custody, and it can bring down the whole copyright claim. It's not crazy to think they might. Such things have been discovered from time to time before.

On the other hand, CBS/P has undoubtedly taken careful stock of its copyright chain-of-custody by now, and, if they were vulnerable, they surely would have discovered it by now and settled the suit for fear of that evidence getting out. So I'm betting they produce the documents in open court and everything is in order.

Just FYI - Gulf+Western picked up Desilu in February 1967 <--- At that point Star Trek was just halfway through it's first season.
Also, Star Trek BECAME what it was BECAUSE of how Paramount aggressively syndicated it (they spent a lot of money - they wanted/hoped to see some return on investment.)

 

[Jedman67]

I don't think it would matter much. Let's say it turns out Luci Arnaz Luckinbill suddenly owns Trek.

I doubt she'd want to see the IP infringed upon, either, particularly as that is directly related to cash flow.

I was asking more if a theoretical paperwork error could actually challenge CBS's ownership

 

[muCephi]

I was asking more if a theoretical paperwork error could actually challenge CBS's ownership

To add:

Would an error that left some particular isolated Trek artifact (say for example Garth's name) with a prior owner be enough to invalidate the entire *CBS* Axanar case, or a big portion of it? My first thought is it might be somewhat separable since claims are made for each of the shows; but within a show, would the whole claim fail on some technicality if a limited number of items from the show were ruled invalid but a lot were valid?

 

[Wowbagger]

I was asking more if a theoretical paperwork error could actually challenge CBS's ownership

Yes. The burden of proof is on CBS to show, in open court, that it is the copyright holder of the works it alleges have been infringe. If it can't meet that burden -- and all it takes is one oversight or hole somewhere along the chain of custody -- then they can't win infringement cases based on those works.

I don't think it would matter much. Let's say it turns out Luci Arnaz Luckinbill suddenly owns Trek.

I doubt she'd want to see the IP infringed upon, either, particularly as that is directly related to cash flow.

I don't know how much it would matter in the grand scheme of things, but it would surely make a big difference to the Axanar lawsuit if it suddenly turned out that neither plaintiff has standing to sue! That would be an end-of-lawsuit situation, wouldn't it?

And CBS, not wanting to cut Luci in on Trek, might decide to settle out-of-court rather than have it revealed to the world (and, thus, to Luci).

Again, I think this is very unlikely, given the state of the case, but Ms. Ranahan would not be doing her job if she didn't dig into it.

EDIT: To muCephi's question just above: that would be a very complicated situation, and I suspect it would depend entirely on the details. Impossible to answer without the specifics.

 

[LocutusCrusher]

Let's say it turns out Luci Arnaz Luckinbill suddenly owns Trek.

Wait, Lucie Arnaz is married to Lawrence Luckinbill? So, that's how he got the part of Sybok!

Although, he was pretty good in the role, even though the movie was bad.

 

[RedForman]

This tool clearly drinks his own kool aid

http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-sep-18th-2016/

 

[mb22]

This may not be relevant to this discussion, but for some reason the first season (and early second) Desilu-produced episodes had no copyright notices. After bootleggers tried selling film prints and tapes, Paramount took them to court. More recent prints have a 1978 copyright notice at the end.
http://chart.copyrightdata.com/c01B.html#s086

 

[muCephi]

This tool clearly drinks his own kool aid

http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-sep-18th-2016/

"All we want to do is give the fans what they want, a great Star Trek story, true to the original and made for no other reason than our love of the franchise."

Then give back all the money that you diverted to salaries, travel, and a private studio, Alec. Otherwise take back your false statement above.

 

[Jedi_Master]

To be a good liar first you have to be able to lie to yourself.

 

[jespah]

This may not be relevant to this discussion, but for some reason the first season (and early second) Desilu-produced episodes had no copyright notices. After bootleggers tried selling film prints and tapes, Paramount took them to court. More recent prints have a 1978 copyright notice at the end.
http://chart.copyrightdata.com/c01B.html#s086

Some of that may have to do with how the US copyright search is structured. Not all of their data is online.

And, yes, if Luci ends up owning Trek, then CBS and Paramount wouldn't have standing to sue. Although I imagine she and her lawyers would act right quick if they needed to.

Luci and Laurence. Their kids are named Katie and Joe.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Some of that may have to do with how the US copyright search is structured. Not all of their data is online.

And, yes, if Luci ends up owning Trek, then CBS and Paramount wouldn't have standing to sue. Although I imagine she and her lawyers would act right quick if they needed to.

Luci and Laurence. Their kids are named Katie and Joe.

And she would find herself with a nice IP to sell.

 

[oswriter]

Some of that may have to do with how the US copyright search is structured. Not all of their data is online.

Indeed, most of the pre-1978 records are still kept in a giant card catalog at the Library of Congress. I used to do research there for book publishers who needed to check on the copyright status of older works.

I doubt Axanar could get that far. Assuming there were flaws in the copyright chain that CBS is as of yet unaware, I can't see how it would impact CBS's ownership of the Star Trek property. @jespah or @oswriter, can you please clarify?

The post-1978 renewals of the TOS copyrights are on file and clearly assign copyright to CBS Studios, Inc., and Paramount Pictures Corporation. This constitutes prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the renewal certificate. The burden is therefore on AP to prove otherwise.

 

[urbandefault]

Regardless of the "chain of custody" paperwork it's obvious to anyone with half a brain (Brain and brain! What is brain?) that the IP has been passed from Desilu through G+W/Paramount to Viacom to CBS. Even if there was a tiny little misstep in filings, CBS will retain the rights. I'm not trained as an attorney, but the sale and/or transfer of properties would include those copyrights unless specified otherwise.

It won't make a hill of beans at the end of the day. AP still won't be able to make his little movie, because a) no one in Hollywood will touch this with a 10 foot pole after the guidelines, and b) he doesn't have enough money left.

 

[trynda1701]

Hey, I thought there weren't any dogs in this fight!

 

[Jedi_Master]

Hey, I thought there weren't any dogs in this fight!

That little one is named "Tribble."

 

[OtherGene]

I think this comes down to motives again. Does Mr Peters genuinely believe he has a case and that the law is on his side? I'm talking his belief, not our opinion on it. If he is absolutely convinced, perhaps he is aware of some facts that we are not, then who wouldn't proceed with that in mind?

Or is he only too aware that once this ride finally stops for good someone will have to account for everything so he has to keep it going to avoid that?

It's the latter, isn't it?

 

[Squiggy]

If he does beleive that he could win then he's either delusional or a massive idiot.

Most likely, he knows he's going to love but loves the attention. Hell, he could've known the movie wasn't going to ever get made and this would be the only way anyone would ever know his name.

 

[OtherGene]

he knows he's going to love but loves the attention.

Sounds like the strapline for an adult movie. Is that what he's stooped to now?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Is this the right place for a Cash Markman joke?

 

[oswriter]

I think this comes down to motives again. Does Mr Peters genuinely believe he has a case and that the law is on his side? I'm talking his belief, not our opinion on it. If he is absolutely convinced, perhaps he is aware of some facts that we are not, then who wouldn't proceed with that in mind?

"As you believe, so shall you do, so shall you do...."