• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

Status
Not open for further replies.
In 2018 a studio comes up with some new wildly popular twist on Star Trek (not talking Garth), it takes all the awards, who owns it and why can't other studios claim it as their own?
If it's Star Trek, Paramount/CBS owns it, because they own the Star Trek IP. Other studios can't claim it because Paramount/CBS owns the Star Trek IP.

If it's similar to Star Trek (and the differences are not minor) then, I'd assume the creator would own it.
 
I'm not talking about creating some new battle scene with the Klingons, For example,Tos and Voyager are both Star Trek yet next to the scattered references are as different as night and day. Another might be Hidden Frontier (without the Kelvins) has few supporting links to the studio's IP.
If can not longer be officially listed as the owner of this types of work, would you lend them to the ST fan film Universe?
 
Wow! That was...really...hard going...
...
...
Pausing for...thought and...drama to... better make my...point.

OK, Snark Mode Off ;)

Anyone know what his beef with Lisa at Star Trek Continues is? I try to stay fairly up to date with Trek fan film news, but this one completely slipped under the radar!

Nice how he's just a guy...trying to help, to do...a favour to Vic...to help him...sort his...organisation out...
...
...
...

What is this guy rambling on about????
Thank GOD he has "the agents" on the case!
 
And now the s**t hits the fan (film). The fight is getting dirtier by the minute. SciFIExpo has used the last weeks to concentrate on hitting STC hard, using YouTube to discredit them and get them into the federal spotlight:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

I tried to make heads or tails of this guy the other day, when I saw him posting on STC's FB page, but he's really bad at making useful videos -- he makes a lot of furious claims, but doesn't back them up, and then rambles a lot. I don't have 30 minutes for you to rant: if you have a case against STC, make it.

What I got out of it was:

1. He asked some questions of STC.

2. Unsatisfied with the response time / answers, he concluded that STC was a fraudulent charity that had committed "federal, state, and local crimes." He never specifies what those crimes are. Apparently he thinks "charity fraud" is self-defining, self-explanatory, and so widely understood that he doesn't need to cite the statutes that state the crime. (FWIW, I'm pretty sure a charity failing to answer an email for three weeks is not a federal criminal offense.)

3. He then freaked out and started spamming at and about STC and their "criminal activities."

4. STC eventually blocked him on Twitter, which he interpreted as "impeding a federal, state, and local criminal investigation" (because apparently he thinks he's a law enforcement officer?), leading to another round of half-hour long freakouts.

In short, this guy seems like a crank. Maybe he makes a really substantive case 25 minutes into each of his videos; I don't know. I've only seen a few minutes of them, and they seemed like Grade-A crank work.

So does he have any connection to Axanar, or would this properly belong in a different thread?
 
In short, this guy seems like a crank. Maybe he makes a really substantive case 25 minutes into each of his videos; I don't know. I've only seen a few minutes of them, and they seemed like Grade-A crank work.
I kept getting him mixed up with the Bigfoot podcast from last night.
 
I'm not talking about creating some new battle scene with the Klingons, For example,Tos and Voyager are both Star Trek yet next to the scattered references are as different as night and day. Another might be Hidden Frontier (without the Kelvins) has few supporting links to the studio's IP.
If can not longer be officially listed as the owner of this types of work, would you lend them to the ST fan film Universe?

TOS and Voyager were also both created by the copyright holder of Star Trek, so while they might be tonally different, they are in the same universe because the owner says so. (And, obviously, all of the IP--the technology, the references to the Federation, the Borg, the Klingons, blah blah blah.)

Voyager is actually a derivative work of TOS, as are all the different incarnations, made BY the IP holder--which is their legal right.

Fan films creating NEW content--not just recreating scenes--are creating derivative work but WITHOUT permission of the copyright holder. This is illegal. And while you might be able to copyright the elements you created, you have also created a piece of property you can't do ANYTHING with without permission of the copyright holder. The derivative work is in violation of copyright.

So... really, would would you bother to register a copyright to a piece of work you have illegally created? Why would one need copyright protection for a derivative work that you don't have permission to create? Would one sue another fan film for "stealing" a script... for copyright violation? I suspect the court would toss the suit.
 
So... really, would would you bother to register a copyright to a piece of work you have illegally created? Why would one need copyright protection for a derivative work that you don't have permission to create? Would one sue another fan film for "stealing" a script... for copyright violation? I suspect the court would toss the suit.
Of course you're correct "post guidelines" assuming the work was originally created for use in the Star Trek universe. To register a script carries the weigh of a date stamp. Still it would not be that great a deal for a script to become compromised, registered by anyone else as something totally non Trek which in turn could leave the original author appearing as the one that ripped it off. What is the author going to say, "My Mother watched me write it?"

Star Trek or Viacom is not the whole universe. Stories written as "Written as Star Trek only" IMHO tend to border on the single dimensional level. Stories with real depth could have taken place in a lot of settings or even stand alone plots.

Now pre guidelines it was fairly common place to register the script not so much to keep it from the IP holder but to protect the studio and crew that was putting in the time and money to produce it.
I would be shocked to find out that Phase II, STC or anyone else who ever invested on the plus side of $10 grand to produce something without first knowing who the true author of the work.was.

I would assume the same goes for the artists that render all the wonderful VFX work, otherwise anyone can just start taking screen grabs and then what are we going to end up with?

Okay, it's a concern and true there is a lot of work on the net that I wouldn't invest the 10 bucks in. I did see a guy hounded back in 2011 -2012 over someone claiming he was doing a fund raiser with his script. Don't ask, I don't know who the script belonged to and I doubt either one of them could prove it either.
 
I tried to make heads or tails of this guy the other day, when I saw him posting on STC's FB page
...............................
So does he have any connection to Axanar, or would this properly belong in a different thread?
When I was listening to those linked vlogs I only listened to the parts relating to the defendant and production. Now that the STC thing is being brought of I've partially listened to his vlogs relating to STC to see what you guys are talking about.

I find it amusing that he says in one of them he has a lot of respect for Tony Todd, that Mr. Todd does not suffer fools for very long, that he uses Mr. Todd as a kind of gauge for his own personal behavior.

Therefore it is surprising to me that Mr. Todd leaving the production, being vocal about why, and quite unsupportive of the production was unmentioned & unheeded in the vlogger's seeming support of it and the defendant.
 
Last edited:
This thread needs to be up for an award (or a series of same).

I laughed, I cried, I snarked, I ate, I watched Downfall parodies, I made memes. - Judith Crist for The New York Times.

9.7! Coulda been a 10 except for the 4 from the East German judge.
 
Of course you're correct "post guidelines" assuming the work was originally created for use in the Star Trek universe. To register a script carries the weigh of a date stamp. Still it would not be that great a deal for a script to become compromised, registered by anyone else as something totally non Trek which in turn could leave the original author appearing as the one that ripped it off. What is the author going to say, "My Mother watched me write it?"

Star Trek or Viacom is not the whole universe. Stories written as "Written as Star Trek only" IMHO tend to border on the single dimensional level. Stories with real depth could have taken place in a lot of settings or even stand alone plots.

Now pre guidelines it was fairly common place to register the script not so much to keep it from the IP holder but to protect the studio and crew that was putting in the time and money to produce it.
I would be shocked to find out that Phase II, STC or anyone else who ever invested on the plus side of $10 grand to produce something without first knowing who the true author of the work.was.

I would assume the same goes for the artists that render all the wonderful VFX work, otherwise anyone can just start taking screen grabs and then what are we going to end up with?

Okay, it's a concern and true there is a lot of work on the net that I wouldn't invest the 10 bucks in. I did see a guy hounded back in 2011 -2012 over someone claiming he was doing a fund raiser with his script. Don't ask, I don't know who the script belonged to and I doubt either one of them could prove it either.

Most of your post is vague and a little confusing to me. But, copyright occurs at the moment of creation. Registering it doesn't make it copyrighted, creating it in a fixed form does. Registering it gives you automatic statutory awards if you prove victorious in your case.

And, what I said applies pre guidelines as well. I'm not sure I see the point in registering a derivative work when you don't have a legal right to do so.

Perhaps the legal minds could answer this: Can you copyright derivative work when you don't have a legal right to create it? In other words, can you copyright fan works?
 
It's flagrantly false in my case. I consider the guidelines (and let's be clear, they are guidelines, not commandments from on high) pretty fair. I am not protesting them because I believe they're fair, and because I believe in the studio's right to decide whatever guidelines they feel like.

Absolutely correct. I certainly have no objection to being able to produce our fan films within these guidelines. I'm concerned that certain individuals would be delighted were fan films eradicated, and that would be a sorrowful day were it ever to come to pass.
 
Most of your post is vague and a little confusing to me. But, copyright occurs at the moment of creation. Registering it doesn't make it copyrighted, creating it in a fixed form does. Registering it gives you automatic statutory awards if you prove victorious in your case.

And, what I said applies pre guidelines as well. I'm not sure I see the point in registering a derivative work when you don't have a legal right to do so.

Perhaps the legal minds could answer this: Can you copyright derivative work when you don't have a legal right to create it? In other words, can you copyright fan works?

My original point was about some Lame guy who runs a focus group with people that may not have done the work. This guy is sending out his demands to the heads of CBS/ Paramount and also threatened to send his finding off to as many papers (news media) that will post it.
I'm sure the heads of the Star Trek Franchise will be overjoyed to receive this wonderful news. (sarcasm)
I don't write for the money because that would be one hell of a pay cut also I write for various production companies in the States and across the pond.
MOST STUDIOS will sign you to an agreement which says this is YOUR work and you are allowing them to use it.
Copyright does not magically begin at the moment of creation, it begins at the moment of documentation.
I've asked this question from the very beginning without an answer. If I am no longer able to document the work as mine how do I legally turn it into the studio as legally mine?
The best answer has been, "If you don't like it, go somewhere else" (Bum feeling)
I happen to like working around one small Star Trek production company, good people, I like being around them and helping out with whatever I can. (so shoot me)
Sometimes I feel as if Writers are only an afterthought that take a part of the blame if the production flops (yes we can be an insecure lot *smile*)
In many fan film studios, the studio creator (the Exe or Big Cheese) may be also the head writer, I have no idea if this crosses their mind with everything else that has to done.
So let us for a minute go with the premise that nothing I create belongs to me and could be picked up by a licensed franchise writer for their use. If true why would I or any other freelance writer wish to create anything of any value in the first place? (feels like I'm in a holding pattern)
 
Last edited:
This thread needs to be up for an award (or a series of same).

I laughed, I cried, I snarked, I ate, I watched Downfall parodies, I made memes. - Judith Crist for The New York Times.

9.7! Coulda been a 10 except for the 4 from the East German judge.

“Instead of working for the survival of the fittest, we should be working for the survival of the wittiest - then we can all die laughing.”
Lily Tomlin

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
MOST STUDIOS will sign you to an agreement which says this is YOUR work and you are allowing them to use it.

This is not factually accurate. When the studios buy your work, they are also buying the copyright. You no longer own it in any way. Unlike a play--which a playwright licenses the work, when you sell a screen play, you are also selling your copyright to it. That's why a studio can fire the original writer and hire someone new, that's why when someone new is hired, they don't own the script.

Working for a studio is all work for hire.

Roddenberry may have created Star Trek, but, he sold his ownership of it. The Studio decided how they were going to use it. That's why it was possible to totally sideline him after the financial failure of TMP.

It's the very reason why there CAN be a union, and why Roddenberry gets credit and residuals. Because writers don't own their copyrights.

Copyright does not magically begin at the moment of creation, it begins at the moment of documentation.

This, too, is factually incorrect.

From the US Gov's copyright office:

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

In other words, once you have finished your novel, your painting, your dance, your play, your screenplay, it is copyrighted.

Also of note, and from the same page...

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work.

I've asked this question from the very beginning without an answer. If I am no longer able to document the work as mine how do I legally turn it into the studio as legally mine?

Simple answer: your name is on it. You can even put the little (c) thing. But, if your name is on it, they assume you didn't steal it.

You can also register a script with the WGA, you don't have to be a member to do so.
You can also register it with the Copyright office.
But, again, all of that is unnecessary.

So let us for a minute go with the premise that nothing I create belongs to me

Your premise is coming from the flawed basis though. What you create is yours. It gets muddy, obviously, if you are creating something based on something you don't own and isn't in the public domain. But, you know that going in. If you are creating fan films then, really, go in with open eyes: you don't own it, you are playing in someone else's sandbox and they can tell you no.

and could be picked up by a licensed franchise writer for their use.

That I don't know is true. I haven't heard of that happening. In some ways, I don't know of a writer who would be all that excited about lifting someone else's story.

But, then, again, you are playing in someone else's sandbox with THEIR toys... you shouldn't be surprised when they are taken away.

If true why would I or any other freelance writer wish to create anything of any value in the first place? (feels like I'm in a holding pattern)

Well, if you are trying to create value in fan films, you are, from my perspective, wasting your time and creative energy. if you want to create something of value, put it towards something that you would own lock stock and barrel, so you can make it or sell it to someone for money or license it.

I get the idea of it being fun to make a Star Trek film, but, all of this time and energy devoted to something that isn't yours... I, as a writer, don't get at all. I don't know why someone would spend years and years playing with someone else's toys and not go make your own. Then it is YOURS.
 
Last edited:
My confusion is within the Star Trek Guidelines
# 9) Creators of fan productions must not seek to register their works, nor any elements of the works, under copyright or trademark law.
From my understanding this disallows "copyright assignment" for derivative works based in the Star Trek Franchise.
Meanwhile most of all the other rules allow for the creation of derivative works within their defined limits.
 
The guidelines are not legal statutes. There's nothing prohibiting anyone from registering their fan films, under the law (that's for a judge to decide)

The fact that most would probably not just further supports the awareness that these are works made with somebody else's IP.

To get nitty gritty, I doubt CBS would have a legal case about any new and distinct elements created by a fan film; the counselor from STC has been used as an example of this elsewhere, but since copyright occurs at the moment of craton anyway, why bother registering in the first place?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top