CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

[Professor Zoom]

Who said anything about stepping into a copyright dispute?

Isn't that what it would be? If a studio asks the WGA to not permit registration based on derivative material the writer doesn't own, that's a copyright dispute. If the WGA would accept the registration, it would suggest taking a side.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Isn't that what it would be? If a studio asks the WGA to not permit registration based on derivative material the writer doesn't own, that's a copyright dispute. If the WGA would accept the registration, it would suggest taking a side.

That's a ridiculous scenario. The WGA does not review the material registered with them at all. It's basically a secure registration service.

How is my material stored?

Material that is mailed or hand-delivered is sealed in a registration envelope immediately. We do not read, microfilm, scan, or view the documents; it remains in exactly the same form as submitted to us. Your material is then stored in a secure depository where only the registration staff and the depository custodian have access. Material submitted online is stored in a non-rewritable digital format and stored in a secure location.​

https://www.wgawregistry.org/regfaqs.html

Again, I am neither endorsing nor recommending registration. The question was asked whether it would be allowed, and I can't see any reason why not. It violates neither the letter nor the spirit of the guidelines. It has nothing to do with exploiting Star Trek IP or leveraging a copyright claim. It would be about making it harder for exploitive situations to occur. For example, it would make it harder for other people involved in a fan production that breaks up due to creative differences to profit from your work, say by filing the serial numbers off your unfilmed script and denying you credit, as in the scenario that @Maurice gave upthread. As another scenario, an author might simply wish to put it on her résumé that she wrote something once, without worry that she has the ability to offer evidence of authorship if it is ever asked for.

 

[dmac]

Authenticity matters in all kinds of fiction. Even if it's "all" make believe you have to include some material that either convinces the audience its not or at least makes them go "Hmmm...could be, someday...:" It helps if your characters can discuss theoretical physics convincingly.

Science is the study of theory in order to prove or disprove the theorem. When proven it becomes fact. If disproved the theory becomes revised or discarded.
Warp Drive: Moving space from the front of the ship to the rear of the ship causing the ship to move forward. This may work with a battle ship in water but space is a void sparsely filled with dust and gases such as hydrogen. I doubt that's even gone from a thought to a workable theory yet.
Matter transportation: Disassembling atoms, transporting them and reassembling in another location. I understand there are or were claims of transporting a single atom. If true it's far away from a human body.
The medical bay: Star treks dreams of a advanced medical knowledge is becoming today's reality.
star trek communicator: Even early flip phones as much as they appeared to be similar to Star Trek depend upon satellite and repeater technology, still far from a single handed device.
Now you're 8-9 years old and ask Dad, "How does that work?" Dad would point to the Funk and Wagnalls and say "Look it up"
That's the real magic of Star Trek. It made young minds curious.
Star Trek (TOS) tapped into a lot of "Think Tank" theory much of which is still far from becoming workable theory.
For every "Think Tank" theory of fifty years ago, I'd guess you'll find a hundred today.

 

[Professor Zoom]

That's a ridiculous scenario.

It's one you suggested....

I'm really not expecting that to happen, for the reasons already stated. I also have to wonder whether the guild would be happy, if a signatory were to stipulate that certain films could be made but scripts for said films could not be registered with the guild. It would be such a pointless restriction.

The question was asked whether it would be allowed, and I can't see any reason why not.

Right. And I disagree. As explained above.

It violates neither the letter nor the spirit of the guidelines. It has nothing to do with exploiting Star Trek IP or leveraging a copyright claim. It would be about making it harder for exploitive situations to occur. For example, it would make it harder for other people involved in a fan production that breaks up due to creative differences to profit from your work, say by filing the serial numbers off your unfilmed script and denying you credit, as in the scenario that @Maurice gave upthread.

Exploit material that you can't legally exploit anyway?

But, sure, they file off all of the Star Trek references, and leave your material. Since, technically, copyright is granted at the moment of creation--registering copyright allows for statutory damages, there's no reason to register it with the WGA.

However, going with your scenario, it still puts the WGA in a position of putting a stamp of "approval" on a derivative script that has no legal right to the underlying IP. You're asking them to protect you for something you don't have a right to be protected.

THAT said: for shits and giggles, I've emailed them to find out if I can register a Star Trek fan film. Let's see what they say.

As another scenario, an author might simply wish to put it on her résumé that she wrote something once, without worry that she has the ability to offer evidence of authorship if it is ever asked for.

You don't have to register a script to put it on your resume to prove you wrote it... you provide the script.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

That may be so. It's troubling that the court doesn't realize this is (probably) a pretty standard Photoshop job, the draft of which could have been banged out in an afternoon by a talented user. If they had known how easy (probably) the illustrations were to make, they might have decided another way.

I appreciate your concern. After all, the idea that someone could make derivative works of your content by the press of a button is terrifying. However, if we make the ease of production the standard for fair use, the mere progression of technology might turn something that is fair use today into infringement tomorrow.

Furthermore, what is easy for one person is hard for another. Should infringement be determined by how talented someone is or what software tools they know how to use?

So to answer the question of registering a work based on and including the Trek universe, no. Just no. If you want to own a copyright or a trademark on a story or characters, be creative and invent new stuff.

Keep in mind that the content doesn't need from the fan film to be in the fan film. Consider the following scenario:

1. You write a new SCP and post it on the SCP Foundation Website.
2. You decide to use that SCP in a Star Trek fan film.
3. After your fan film comes out, something basically identical to your SCP appears in an episode of Star Trek.
4. CBS files a DMCA takedown to remove your SCP and all related materials produced by others from the SCP Foundation site.
5. You're unable to prevent this because CBS can immediately sue you for copyright violation because of your fan film, and will state publicly that you've violated the guidelines.

This is unlikely, of course, but it's not impossible.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's one you suggested....

Nope. The whole discussion is about whether registration with the WGA is in compliance with the guidelines. I never suggested any scenario whereby the WGA would police submitted scripts. That was you:

If a studio asks the WGA to not permit registration based on derivative material the writer doesn't own

I simply said that I doubt they would be supportive of the idea that registration of certain kinds of scripts was not being allowed as a condition to participate in certain kinds of productions.

 

[dmac]

I appreciate your concern. After all, the idea that someone could make derivative works of your content by the press of a button is terrifying. However, if we make the ease of production the standard for fair use, the mere progression of technology might turn something that is fair use today into infringement tomorrow.

Furthermore, what is easy for one person is hard for another. Should infringement be determined by how talented someone is or what software tools they know how to use?

Keep in mind that the content doesn't need from the fan film to be in the fan film. Consider the following scenario:

1. You write a new SCP and post it on the SCP Foundation Website.
2. You decide to use that SCP in a Star Trek fan film.
3. After your fan film comes out, something basically identical to your SCP appears in an episode of Star Trek.
4. CBS files a DMCA takedown to remove your SCP and all related materials produced by others from the SCP Foundation site.
5. You're unable to prevent this because CBS can immediately sue you for copyright violation because of your fan film, and will state publicly that you've violated the guidelines.

This is unlikely, of course, but it's not impossible.

I hope this is more interesting than talking Failed Trek year after year after year.
Actually Failanar made some of us take a look at what we were doing.
We were just going to make Fan Trek, work on a few skills along the way. Then do it again!
Few people I know even considered making a dime off Star Trek. There was this one guy but it ended in a lawsuit or something. Rumor has it he was last seen heading east on hwy 10 wrapped in a sixty foot long green cape.
People pointing, "It's a flying lawn!
"It's a football field"
"No! it's Captain Failanar!"
Anyway....
Y'all been very helpful clearing up the dividing line.
If I wish to write fan Trek, which I enjoy, it's derivative work.
When you're project is finished, stamp a herpes on it and treat it like a virus.
That's easy.

 

[Admiral2]

Science is the study of theory in order to prove or disprove the theorem. When proven it becomes fact. If disproved the theory becomes revised or discarded.
Warp Drive: Moving space from the front of the ship to the rear of the ship causing the ship to move forward. This may work with a battle ship in water but space is a void sparsely filled with dust and gases such as hydrogen. I doubt that's even gone from a thought to a workable theory yet.
Matter transportation: Disassembling atoms, transporting them and reassembling in another location. I understand there are or were claims of transporting a single atom. If true it's far away from a human body.
The medical bay: Star treks dreams of a advanced medical knowledge is becoming today's reality.
star trek communicator: Even early flip phones as much as they appeared to be similar to Star Trek depend upon satellite and repeater technology, still far from a single handed device.
Now you're 8-9 years old and ask Dad, "How does that work?" Dad would point to the Funk and Wagnalls and say "Look it up"
That's the real magic of Star Trek. It made young minds curious.
Star Trek (TOS) tapped into a lot of "Think Tank" theory much of which is still far from becoming workable theory.
For every "Think Tank" theory of fifty years ago, I'd guess you'll find a hundred today.

You do realize I wasn't arguing with you, right?

 

[Maurice]

This seems to have veered really far off the Axanar topic.

Anyway, to sum up , @CorporalCaptain is correct that the WGA script registration is just that: you send it in with the fee and they file it away without looking at it. It has no real functional purpose outside of the ones I listed upthread. It also has no bearing on Copyrights and cannot affect Copyright law. It just says, "a copy of this was filed with us on this date".

@dmac. Are you going to answer me as to if you meant Zicree's Space Command when you wrote "Star Command"?

 

[dmac]

You do realize I wasn't arguing with you, right?

I'll let you in on a secret between me, you and nobody else.
About 6 years ago a petroleum coking plant in Socal got regulated out of business ... whatever We used a special blend on our adhesives and the only other source is in China. Like cheap cooking oil the china blend burns at 150 degrees and we could have a 150 gallons of this stuff in the vats at any given time. We've tried everything to vent the building which is far to small for the growing operation anyway. The trouble with venting is a diesel truck repair yard right behind us that services the truckers up from south of the boarder. They get 6 -8 of those things running all morning and that black diesel flumes even leaves a black coating on paperwork on my desk.
My eyes get so irradiated every few weeks that I hit buttons that I shouldn't.
Please don't take it personally if I do.
The only real solution is to pack up the business and head north where the $15 an hour pay my division of worker gets paid will actually mean something. I've ran all the numbers, cost of living, business overhead costs, health care costs. Our division could on paper double our profits after 2 years but the powers to be say no. We'll be a thousand miles away form the main plant.
obviously after 45 years I'm so old and out of touch with the new economy so it's time to quit, take my retirement and allow those whom are smarter than I deal with it.

 

[dmac]

@dmac. Are you going to answer me as to if you meant Zicree's Space Command when you wrote "Star Command"?

Consider how do you start a series? Should it be grand and epic with lots of back story while diving into how each character feels about their new film role? I went into information overload.
Why not start it at the end. You're chasing a stolen ship. All those details they dumped in the first 30 minutes are tidbits for episode 5-20.
We even found out Robert picardo;s character's wife died in a freak mountain flash flood.
How many years did it take before we discovered Captain Kirk was from Iowa?
Actually I found myself doing the same thing. The concept was an almost spirit like computer device that passed from generation to generation so it may have been on your grandmother's ship when she was captain. It's friendly, it's protective and it can move on it's own free will from one piece of equipment to another but it couldn't fix anything that was broken.
The whole first episode was this young space pilot gets his ship attacked, he's ends up with a bad head injury and the computer is desperately trying to save him
I reused it on a Galaxy Quest episode simply calling it "The orb thing"

 

[Maurice]

...We even found out Robert picardo;s character's wife died in a freak mountain flash flood...

You could have just said "yes". I had to pick out the sentence about Robert Picardo's character to see you did mean Space Command.

 

[dmac]

You could have just said "yes". I had to pick out the sentence about Robert Picardo's character to see you did mean Space Command.

Made you work for it, didn't I...lol
I shouldn't talk bad about other peoples work when I give myself so much material

 

[jespah]

I do love how this topic spurs a lot of neat discussion.

 

[KennyB]

 

[Professor Zoom]

Nope. The whole discussion is about whether registration with the WGA is in compliance with the guidelines. I never suggested any scenario whereby the WGA would police submitted scripts. That was you:

Right... it's almost like I was... participating in a discussion...

Anyhoo, sadly, this all that I got from the WGA from my question, which was "Hi, I'd like to register my Star Trek fan film, can I do that?

Their response:

The primary purpose of registration is to establish the completion date of original work on behalf of the named author. The WGAW Registry does not read your material. The WGAW registration process places preventative measures against plagiarism or unauthorized use of an author's material. Registering does not make your work available to third parties or agencies.

We recommend authors document their authorship in some fashionpriorto releasing work to outside or third parties.

Registerable material includes scripts, treatments, synopses, outlines, and written ideas specifically intended for radio, television and film, video cassettes/discs, or interactive media. The WGAW Registry also accepts stageplays, novels and other books, short stories, poems, commercials, lyrics, drawing, music, loglines, and other media work. The material you are referring to may be registered in any of the aforementioned formats and should be as detailed as possible. It is entirely your discretion which format or how detailed your material is when submitting for registration.



Material may be submitted for registration online or by mail. Complete instructions for registering material with the WGAW are available atwww.wgawregistry.org. Material isnotaccepted via email or fax. The registration fee is $20.00. Login is not required.

So much form answers!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ That's like exactly what we've been saying. It may be a form response, but there's really nothing more to say.

 

[JD]

This seems to have veered really far off the Axanar topic.

Anyway, to sum up , @CorporalCaptain is correct that the WGA script registration is just that: you send it in with the fee and they file it away without looking at it. It has no real functional purpose outside of the ones I listed upthread. It also has no bearing on Copyrights and cannot affect Copyright law. It just says, "a copy of this was filed with us on this date".

Oh, I didn't realize that was all it was, I thought it was more of an approval/recognition kind of thing.

 

[Maurice]

A quick aside from WGA registration to the issue of getting a Copyright on your work.

I was told the other day that the deal for a project I might be working on was delayed because the production company wanted to purchase the Copyright to an existing screenplay, but for whatever reason they required that there be a registered Copyright, so the screenwriter had to cough up a lot of $$$ to do an expedited Copyright registration, which happens very quickly, as opposed to the cheaper $35 but takes 2-10 months to process thing that normally happens.

I've never before heard of such a requirement, and I suspect it might have to do with the particulars of the deal, but just in case I'll shortly be sending in all my recent original scripts for Copyright registration before I go out and start to pitch them.

 

[Noname Given]

What? We ALREADY DISCUSSED the fact that Disney has Star Wars Fan Film contest guidelines in place...YEARS AGO...