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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

Do you enjoy pie?

  • Yes, sweet, please

    Votes: 79 40.9%

  • Yes, savory, please

    Votes: 42 21.8%

  • Yes, any kind

    Votes: 80 41.5%

  • No, I'm a heathen

    Votes: 37 19.2%
  • Total voters
    193
carlosp said:
Not exactly. Guideline #9 doesn't apply only to the finished film:

Creators of fan productions must not seek to register their works, nor any elements of the works, under copyright or trademark law. [emphasis mine]​

Pretty sure a screenplay qualifies as an element of the work.
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But the implicit question here, I think, is does guideline #9 apply at all with respect to the registered material under discussion, if there is no Star Trek fan film with which Jenkins is involved that uses that registered material (assuming for some reason that CBS chose to take action against Jenkins)?

I think it's reasonably clear that Jenkins at one point intended to be working on the fan film with Peters and that he created and/or contributed (from work(s) he had previously written) the portions of the screenplay under discussion for that purpose. If I understand the sequence of events correctly, there was a falling out with Peters, and then evidently to deny Peters use of the material under discussion that Jenkins had contributed, Jenkins registered that material he had contributed minus Star Trek IP with the Copyright Office.

Still, the implicit question here is, does guideline #9 apply to Jenkins with respect to this registered material, if he never uses it in a Star Trek fan film? You said a couple of posts ago that CBS has no interest in pursuing Jenkins over this screenplay, and that it is devoid of Star Trek IP. How could guideline #9 be applicable here under all of these conditions?
 
carlosp said:
Not exactly. Guideline #9 doesn't apply only to the finished film:

Creators of fan productions must not seek to register their works, nor any elements of the works, under copyright or trademark law. [emphasis mine]​

Pretty sure a screenplay qualifies as an element of the work.
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Well if your're going to get technical about it, fine! :biggrin:

I suppose at the end of the day and regardless of the FF Guidelines, copyrighting a piece of work that is derivative of someone else's IP is still a violation of their intellectual property, even if the owners decide to do nothing about it.
 
carlosp said:
Since Jenkins has registered a sole-author copyright for just the words he added to the pre-existing script (estimated to be at most around 75% of the completed script), he's the only guy legally empowered to decide what's done with the IP. This is Peters' worst case scenario since he's thereby legally prevented from making use of the material Jenkins has formally copyrighted, effectively erasing the past three years of work on Axanar Lite.
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I think this is Peters best case scenario, honestly. He can paint Jenkins, CBS and the courts (or arbitrator) as bad guys saying they stole what he worked so hard on for the last three years, and start the con all over again.
 
Ricky Spanish said:
I think this is Peters best case scenario, honestly. He can paint Jenkins, CBS and the courts (or arbitrator) as bad guys saying they stole what he worked so hard on for the last three years, and start the con all over again.
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Doesn't matter. He'll spin it for his benefit and people who remain angry at CBS will continue to send money his way. I hate the fact that he is living on being anti-CBS but there are those out there who are convinced that his is the "True Trek" and CBS is the Anti-Trek and must be battled on all fronts.
 
fireproof78 said:
Doesn't matter. He'll spin it for his benefit and people who remain angry at CBS will continue to send money his way. I hate the fact that he is living on being anti-CBS but there are those out there who are convinced that his is the "True Trek" and CBS is the Anti-Trek and must be battled on all fronts.
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While that's true, Alec Peters is seeing diminishing returns. You can only play victim for so long. The longer it goes on the more people are recognizing Axanar for the monetary sinkhole that it is. Its ongoing "private" crowdfunding campaign is basically stalled, and its Patreon has been falling all year.

What's more, Peters' victims are no longer standing by on the sidelines. They're banding together.
 
NoGrave Dug said:
Unless/until CBS contests the copyright in court, Jenkins can register copyright on anything he wrote.
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Well, the copyright has to be properly filed. If Paul failed to properly identify the parts he didn't author, that might give Alec a way to invalidate the copyright, but he'd still need the cash to last long enough to prove it in court. Hmm, could Paul simply refile the copyright with corrections if he didn't file it correctly, or does he have to get it right the first time?

The thing that bugs me about this whole situation is that what Paul is doing will become the model for how to screw over a fan film production that neglects to have all their writers sign contracts.
 
Matthew Raymond said:
Well, the copyright has to be properly filed. If Paul failed to properly identify the parts he didn't author, that might give Alec a way to invalidate the copyright, but he'd still need the cash to last long enough to prove it in court. Hmm, could Paul simply refile the copyright with corrections if he didn't file it correctly, or does he have to get it right the first time?

The thing that bugs me about this whole situation is that what Paul is doing will become the model for how to screw over a fan film production that neglects to have all their writers sign contracts.
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Um...the facts are:

1) Except for Alec Peters and whatever is in the settlement between Himself/Axanar and CBS/Paramount; - the CBS Fan Film guidelines have ZERO force of law - and CBS states the retain all right to pursue whatever legal remedies they choose at their discretion, whether a group completely follows the guidelines or not -- and further CBS explicitly states they are not an implied contract of any kind. CBS basically states "Follow these rules and we probably won't sue you...BUT we still can if we want to.

2) Copyright law allows you to copyright anything and everything you yourself write/produce. Copyright registration only comes into play if you, the person who registered it, has an issue with how it's used - and allows you to prove in a court that yes, you WERE the person who wrote those words - and the structure/syntax/framing of those particular words 'belong' to you.

IF however the IP you wrote them for belongs to another entity (in the case of the Star Trek IP that's CBS) - and they want to (and usually this only happens if like in Alec Peter's case, you are using their IP without a valid licensing agreement); they can file suit in court and exert their copyright ownership - prevent you from using what you wrote in the form that is derivative of/uses their IP in any way, and request monetary damages.

HOWEVER (and this is all hypothetical because the Peters/Jenkins current lawsuit is a defamation suit; and Alec Peters is trying to claim that Jenkin's copyright registration, and declaration that Peters is not allowed to use Jenkin's parts of the script or the footage shot is somehow defamatory to Alec Peters personally) - if this was involving copyright law, and was between just Peters and Jenkins; UNLESS CBS somehow enjoined itself, and filed an injunction/some sort of lawsuit against Jenkin's claiming copyright; standard copyright law would apply and the Judge would rule based on the evidence supplied by just Jenkins and Peters; and if just those two parties were involved - Jenkins would most likely prevail.

But as has been stated many times above - Jenkin's registered copyright is not the main issue of the current legal dispute between Jenkins and Peters.
 
NoGrave Dug said:
But as has been stated many times above - Jenkin's registered copyright is not the main issue of the current legal dispute between Jenkins and Peters.
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I wasn't addressing the defamation suit. I was addressing the copyright claims. Basically everything you said had nothing to do with the message you replied to.
 
Matthew Raymond said:
Well, the copyright has to be properly filed. If Paul failed to properly identify the parts he didn't author, that might give Alec a way to invalidate the copyright, but he'd still need the cash to last long enough to prove it in court. Hmm, could Paul simply refile the copyright with corrections if he didn't file it correctly, or does he have to get it right the first time?

The thing that bugs me about this whole situation is that what Paul is doing will become the model for how to screw over a fan film production that neglects to have all their writers sign contracts.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "properly filed." He had an IP attorney write and submit everything. And as I reported earlier this week, industry standard screenwriting software makes it very easy to identify what words Jenkins wrote and which ones Peters did. (See copyright registration below)

Also, Peters can't just walk into a courtroom and contest Jenkins' copyright; he has to have standing. To do that, he has to file a copyright infringement lawsuit. Under copyright law you have to have a registered copyright in order to pursue legal action. Peters has no such copyright, and he is prohibited by the terms of the settlement from registering one. He's stuck between a legal rock and a copyright hard place.

In answer to your final question, Jenkins filed his copyright first in August, then an amended registration in September.

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carlosp said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "properly filed." He had an IP attorney write and submit everything. And as I reported earlier this week, industry standard screenwriting software makes it very easy to identify what words Jenkins wrote and which ones Peters did. (See copyright registration below)
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That assumes all authorship occurred within the software. For example, Alec could have written down part of the script and passed in on to Paul to incorporate it into the script, and the actual author in that hypothetical situation would be Alec.

However, if they're both using the same software exclusively to record their changes, and exchanging changes via that software, then yes, you could definitely say who authored what.
carlosp said:
Also, Peters can't just walk into a courtroom and contest Jenkins' copyright; he has to have standing. To do that, he has to file a copyright infringement lawsuit. Under copyright law you have to have a registered copyright in order to pursue legal action. Peters has no such copyright, and he is prohibited by the terms of the settlement from registering one. He's stuck between a legal rock and a copyright hard place.
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That makes no sense. You just stated that Alec's contributions to the script are identified, which means he's an acknowledged party the the script's creation. How does he not have standing to dispute what content Paul authored and whether he had a right to copyright it? Furthermore, Paul's press release implies that he will use legal action against Alec to prevent his use of the script and footage. Doesn't that in and of itself give Alec standing in court, as he his being actively legally threatened by that copyright? Basically you're saying that people must provoke legal action against themselves and put themselves in legal peril before they can challenge the validity of a copyright, even if they're a party to the work in question and claim that they should be the legal copyright holder. That's insane.
carlosp said:
In answer to your final question, Jenkins filed his copyright first in August, then an amended registration in September.
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Okay, but can he hypothetically move forward with a copyright violation suit based on an incorrectly filed copyright that must amended later? Doesn't this kind of create a sort of copyright double jeopardy, where someone could sued twice for the same work based on different copyright filings/amendments?
 
Matthew Raymond said:
I wasn't addressing the defamation suit. I was addressing the copyright claims. Basically everything you said had nothing to do with the message you replied to.
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Seriously, Matt, how much do your shoulders slump from carrying all this water for Alec Peters?

How many times does somebody have to tell you that the copyright case is not the real issue before you finally get it through your head? It's irrelevant, and you're only trying to make it relevant because it makes it easier to be Jenkins' detractor and Peters' apologist.
 
drt said:
I do admit there's a sense of irony in that Jenkins was more than willing to shit all over CBS's intellectual property rights then turn around and file a copyright to block Peters.
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It's different when they do it. Just like if someone else used Peter's property he would throw a fit while using CBS' property with impunity.
 
drt said:
I do admit there's a sense of irony in that Jenkins was more than willing to shit all over CBS's intellectual property rights then turn around and file a copyright to block Peters.
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Now that things have gotten clarified, I don't see how Jenkins has either shit all over CBS's IP rights or even indicated any willingness to do so. The Axanar film is allowed by CBS in the settlement with Peters. Jenkins did not register any Star Trek IP with the Copyright Office, and nor does the registration appear to have been done in the furtherance of Jenkins' involvement with Peters' project, but rather apparently as part of his cutting ties with Peters. So, what am I missing here?
 
Coronacopia said:
Now that things have gotten clarified, I don't see how Jenkins has either shit all over CBS's IP rights or even indicated any willingness to do so. The Axanar film is allowed by CBS in the settlement with Peters. Jenkins did not register any Star Trek IP with the Copyright Office, and nor does the registration appear to have been done in the furtherance of Jenkins' involvement with Peters' project, but rather apparently as part of his cutting ties with Peters. So, what am I missing here?
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Him being respectful of CBS is new, he was singing a different tune three years ago when he thought there was something in it for him - he actually said CBS suing Peters was "sad" and "a mistake".
 
There was an argument, at one time, that they could be, provided no profit is made off of them whatsoever, and that all credit due is given to CBS/Paramount as primary owners of the IP. That, of course, has all gone into the shitter because of the ass-clown. Things were so much simpler back then before he dropped a MERV-6 on the thin line of intellectual property protection which forced CBS/PM to drop the hammer on all of it.
 
drt said:
Rereading that I had forgotten he also thinks that fan films are fair use.
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137th Gebirg said:
There was an argument, at one time, that they could be, provided no profit is made off of them whatsoever....
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That argument has been shot down so many times by multiple IP holders, it looks worse than any B-17 that flew over Germany in WW-2. Every court ruling I've ever heard of says that fan-fiction / fan-films are Derivative Copyright and thus NOT covered under Fair Use. It does NOT matter whether there is profit made or no profit made, the fan-author cannot claim primary copyright.
 
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