CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by jespah, May 10, 2018.

?

Do you enjoy pie?

  1. Yes, sweet, please

    57 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Yes, savory, please

    29 vote(s)
    21.8%
  3. Yes, any kind

    51 vote(s)
    38.3%
  4. No, I'm a heathen

    25 vote(s)
    18.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. carlosp

    carlosp Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
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    Seattle
    Randy, you ask a fair question. I believe I answered it in my (sorry) lengthy reply a couple days ago. I also answered it in an essay last year.

    Here's where I have trouble with what you've observed. First, each of the questions you put to me with regard to what AxaMonitor's endgame is assume that I bear some personal animus toward Alec Peters that can only be sated by destroying him in some way. That's completely unfair because zero of my work can be demonstrated to signal that kind of emotional attachment. I have only conducted myself professionally and civilly this entire time. The same cannot be said of Peters or Lane.

    What would I hope my legacy to be, you ask? I would hope it is this:
    • That anyone who tries to take advantage of eager fans be held accountable for delivering what they promise, or to take responsibility for what had gone wrong, instead of always blaming someone else.
    • That Alec Peters' having wasted close to $2 million without producing anything be remembered as an object lesson in how *not* to produce a fan film.
    • That if Axanar is ever made its finances would be truly open and accountable.
    I understand, Randy, also why you might be sick of hearing about all this and that we should move on, and that so few fan filmmakers chime in publicly on this topic, but I ask you to consider this:

    "Moving on" shouldn't mean ignoring that fan films were used to raise so much money to support commercial ventures far beyond simply delivering donors their promised film.

    "Moving on" shouldn't mean that Peters and Lane's shouldn't get a pass for their unceasing ad hominem attacks against those with legitimate questions to ask. Where is your disgust for their using such attacks as a means to continue to raise money from fans to pay the rent for Peters' warehouse? Where is your disgust for that behavior, or it just reserved for the more ardent critics on this board? Why don't we hear that expressed in Axanar forums? Might it be because you know that your comments would be both attacked and deleted?

    "Moving on" shouldn't mean people lending their credibility to someone like Peters by making public appearances alongside him as if all is forgiven.

    "Moving on" shouldn't mean only fan filmmakers are entitled to air their opinion about the Axanar debacle. Most of the ones I know continue to keep a low profile because they know the wisdom of not poking the bear when playing with the bear's intellectual property. And as the apparent "chief hater," I was a fan filmmaker. I made a lot of them, among them some of the most heralded and honored. A key part of my motivation, and I've stated this from the beginning, stemmed from my concern over the harm Axanar was bringing down upon all fan films.

    My own career as a professional filmmaker was born from my involvement for many years in producing fan films. The threat posed by the Axanar lawsuit imperiled other people from being able to enjoy the same experience. And I've been transparent about that from Day 1. So if you want to know what my emotional motivation is, you can start there.
     
  2. dmac

    dmac Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    I think this is healthy, after all we are all adults.
    At first this was interesting to follow the lawsuit, exactly how did Peters bring the wrath of CBS down upon him, how is this going to effect producers of fan films? I didn't see Prelude any better or worse than other fan films. You have a hand full of skilled actors, director,visual effects and that's all you can come up with?
    If I wasted those skills and plus or minus a hundred grand, you would never see me again unless you look down the hall of shame.
    Once the guidelines came out I feared I'll never be able to tell the type of stories I want to tell in the Star Trek Universe. I guess everyone could thank the guideline for saving them from that. At first a lot of people were very optimistic of what can be created in less than 15 minutes, I see productions that simply retell fifty year old episodes. Just hang Gary 7 over the warp core, a black cat walking the floor and you don't have to explain much after that. Tribbles are cool, actually they're here to take over the Federation.
    It became irreverent to point out all of Peters flaws I believe he actually enjoys it and it's become his nexus to rally support.
    I find a lot of intelligent people here and it's become better entertainment than most new hit prime time series.
    There is no way we are going to effect what Alec wants to do, that is up to CBS.
    I wish we paid more attention to what's being created by real fan film productions, a lot of work goes into creating those without simply outsourcing the skilled positions but I guess everyone loves a train wreck.
     
  3. Tom

    Tom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I have been thinking a similar thing for while. I like the way Axamonitor is constructed and easy to navigate. I would love to see a site done in the same fashion that covers all things Trek, and is not afraid to dig into the more controversial subject matter. Axamonitor could still be a separate site and have a section on the new site of course. I own the domain name Trekmonitor.com and would love to get together with you, Carlos, and maybe some others? so create such a site. People who know me, know I have helped to create many Trek (and Scifi) websites and forums over the past 15 years. Over the last few years I have been more involved with productions and previously helping to run some conventions, but I still have some time to help start a website, just looking for the right one. Trekmovie and Trektoday are great news sites, but i would like to see a site that can take the gloves off and not be afraid to deal with any sensitive subject matter if needed.

    Anyways, I will throw that out there for what its worth. If there is interest let me know.
     
  4. Potemkin_Prod

    Potemkin_Prod Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Location:
    Out of Here
    This:
    Carlos, I appreciate the reply, but I think that the forum overly dwells on one failed production. I don't see the same sort of focus on other productions that took in large amounts of money and never materialized. All I see is a regurgitation of events, and folks bashing away. If this were happening in The Neutral Zone, I wouldn't bat an eye or issue a single word. However, this used to be a wonderful forum, and now it's not, and I think this is because of the level of animosity exhibited by many posters toward Axanar, its cast and crew, its producers, and even its fans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    dmac likes this.
  5. SITZKRIEG!

    SITZKRIEG! Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2016
    No, there is a big difference between motive and goals. For example, I could have a goal of buying the last sandwich in a cafe while I'm standing in line for the register. My motive to accomplish that goal could be as inoccuous as I'm hungry or as nefarious as to stick it to the loudmouth behind me in line who said he wants it because he is really hungry. People are asking about the goal of the blog but the conversation by folks who are primed to disagree is to instead argue against the non-existent question about his perceived motive.

    That said.. just to be clear... I ascribe no ulterior or negative motive to Carlos' goal in continuing to cover the Axanar mess. If he wants to continue covering it (and he does as he has addressed the question twice in detail in the past two days) then so be it and I'll continue to read his coverage as well.

    Carlos, any thoughts on in addition to axamonitor starting up a general fan film blog? I prefer your more dispassionate style of writing when covering things compared with FFF.
     
  6. dmac

    dmac Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    If something doesn't work out right in a fan film, 9 times out of 10 the person that did it, is probably one of the first ones to notice it. This only becomes a failure if nobody learns by it or understands how to do better next time.
    Like me writing emperor when I should have used chancellor. Someday someone is going to notice and all hell will break out.
     
  7. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Location:
    In the Sunshine!
    So, you are blaming Carlos for ruining the fan film forum at the TrekBBS? Really? I see honest reporting from Carlos and I appreciate his balanced reporting on the whole situation. Not sure why you are coming to an Axanar thread complaining that people are talking about Axanar instead of fan films. I don't really see the correlation between the two honestly. The lack of fan film interest has more to do with the result of what Alec has done; not the result of people talking about Axanar in this thread or Carlo's reporting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  8. Potemkin_Prod

    Potemkin_Prod Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
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    Out of Here
    God, <godzilla facepalm> I never said that.

    Nevermind. I helped start this forum years ago by calling for its creation. I wanted to restore its focus to its original intent.

    I'll leave it to you all to further attack me and tell me I'm attacking someone whose work I admired and in a small way contributed to.
     
  9. dmac

    dmac Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    I think it's very clear.
    Carlos is a great researcher, detailing and documenting source. He is also a wonderful storyteller. Axanar at this point is a misuse of talent IMHO
     
    wtriker1701 likes this.
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    We cannot understand if this is the reaction. All we're doing is trying to understand, and the reaction is one of "Go ahead and attack me." This is not furthering the dialog at all. :shrug:
     
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  11. carlosp

    carlosp Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Let's talk :)
     
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  12. carlosp

    carlosp Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't take Randy's comments about the forum overall as a critique of my work. I only took issue with the assumptions underlying his questions about what I envisioned as the endgame for AxaMonitor. One of the more frustrating things I encounter is the conflating of AxaMonitor with everything Axa-haters do, some of which is distasteful. So I get a li'l prickly when such intimations are made. I harbor no ill will, Randy, and I do thank you for what you've done in the past with regard to shining a light on Axanar. :)
     
  13. mirrormatt86

    mirrormatt86 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Location:
    Australia
    As Christian Gossett notes on Friday's Trekzone episode - hating Alec and hating Axanar should be two very different things.

    I believe that that will be when Alec either makes the film and ends his association with Star Trek or he fades away - completely - into obscurity.

    While I don't condone the name calling - even if I might've used the apt term "Percious Lane" previously - they are not innocent themselves.

    But it's not dead - not according to Alec who continues to violate the guidelines by releasing Axanar material on-line while profiting from it.

    Exactly because they never materialised... Alec's idea of Axanar (aka, the studio and milking Star Trek fans of their money because "CBS is bad") is stuck in the transporter buffer and continues to exist.
     
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  14. Maurice

    Maurice Maurice, the ATARI CX5200 Premium Member

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    I have to laugh at the idea that this forum is all Axanar all the time and poisoned. People keep posting stuff in this forum and mostly the response is crickets. If this community is fading it's because We as a group aren't participating in the threads. You want a vibrant community here? Fucking watch the films and give feedback.

    You know who you are. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    astral plane
    From both the context and form of the statement of mine that you quoted, it was obvious that I was referring to the particular situation. I'm fully aware of the distinction in general between a motive and a goal, thanks.
     
  16. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I apologize if you took my comments as an attack; it certainly was not meant to be so. I am seriously confused by your comments since to me they don't seem to be relevant to THIS thread; that's all
     
    fireproof78 likes this.
  17. Tom

    Tom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Guy's I know my name is not in green letters , but please, lets try to be civil to each other, and understand that everyone has different viewpoints and are entitled to their opinions. Many people are upset that Alec basically got away with stealing thousands of Star Trek's fans money, as a fan, I am upset by this as well. That being said, we should be above any childish hate tactics, be it aimed at Alec, or even other posters in this forum. I agree that fans who are not familiar with the situation, should be informed before donating, and this is where Axamonitor comes in. People should always research what they are putting their money into.

    We have been at this for about 4 years, and there comes a point where the whole thing does get tiresome, but there is con man out there trying to still fleece fans of their money. The good thing is, the scope of his reach is getting smaller and smaller.

    There are other threads in this section, but we should not blame this thread for their lack of responses, that is up to the interest of the poster. I myself, read them and sometimes I post, and some times I do not. This thread has nothing to do how we respond (or not respond) to other threads.

    One of the things I like most about any of these fan films, no matter how small, is an appreciation of the effort of the people how make them. having been apart of that myself, it is a great (even if the work is hard).

    @carlos, I will contact you
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  18. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Then maybe people should stop assuming intent and ask if they don’t understand. There’s a big difference between “Are you blaming....” and “So, you blaming...”
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Completely agree.
     
  20. carlosp

    carlosp Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location:
    Seattle
    In today's AxaMonitor Daily: Prelude to Axanar director Christian Gossett comes out swinging on Trekzone this week. Conflicting stories: Is Axanar moving or not? Jonathan Lane's misinterpreting Patreon data. Plus: Alec Peters' dwindling YouTube audience, how much revenue is he actually getting from YouTube and other news you might've missed. Read, and subscribe if you like :)
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