I'd say DS9 and VOY had massively bigger tonal differences than Flash, Supergirl and LoT.
CBS AA planning a direct Discovery spinoff?
- Thread starter Red Panda
- Start date
- Status
I'd say DS9 and VOY had massively bigger tonal differences than Flash, Supergirl and LoT.
Race and Gender don't matter.
We've had boring White male leads on TV before;
and boring 'diverse' leads just the same;
You really just need a charismatic and engaging actor with a commanding screen presence as your lead actor. Shatner, Stewart, Brooks and Mulgrew definitely had that factor.
Only if DS9 and VOY were the only shows you'd seen in your life.
Hmm.
Can I persuade you to not believe in things I would like to come true?
For science...
Race and Gender don't matter.
We've had boring White male leads on TV before;
and boring 'diverse' leads just the same;
You really just need a charismatic and engaging actor with a commanding screen presence as your lead actor. Shatner, Stewart, Brooks and Mulgrew definitely had that factor.
Bull. Difference is a good thing. I've seen Kirk, Picard and Archer. Pike isn't different enough to be an appealing addition to the group. Which is not to say that he'll be a disaster - a good actor always helps, but it's still best to have more than just a good actor.
Nope. I've seen lots of shows. Including the aforementioned Flash and Supergirl which are essentially the same show, except that Supergirl makes the occasional feminism inspired speech and Flash had a short flirtation with emo.
Voyager and DS9 weren't too far apart at first, though even then there was a noticeable difference. Late DS9 was an almost completely different show from early DS9, though.
I'd actually argue in a lot of ways late DS9 was a bit lighter in tone than early DS9. Or at least early DS9 was almost entirely dour in terms of mood, while most of the lighter comedic episodes which worked came from Season 4 onwards.
Their appearance, race and gender has no bearing on their personality, charisma and screen presence.
Anson has been the main lead actor of a successful AMC series before.
Of course, I'm in agreement that a Pike series would be a weak idea at this point. I'd wager the vast majority of Trek fans are tired of revisiting and reinventing the TOS era and ready to push Trek forward with some shows set post-Nemesis.
Last I heard, that was the plan. Almost 2 years ago I heard this rumor from an insider. The rumor I heard said they were going to introduce Pike/Spock/Enterprise at the end of season 2 and spin them off into their own series of adventures before Kirk. Apparently that plan was moved up to the beginning of season 2, but it might still basically be it.
Ethnicity and gender have lots of effect on personal history, experiences, backstory, etc, all of which influence personality and character. Charisma is indeed a separate thing, but not the end all and be all of a good show.
I know Anson was the lead in Sons of Anarchy. I haven't seen, though I've heard good things. Everything I have seen of him has left me ambivalent. But that's just trailers and clips, so far, so I will certainly give him a chance when the show comes around.
Nope
Didn't seem to affect Kirk and Picard. Both White males, yet both the complete opposite of each other in almost every way.
Hell on Wheels.
You're saying the majority of Trek fans want the prequel setting to continue? Lol. I've seen enough evidence to the contrary there after Enterprise, JJ trek and STD.
Which means there's even less room left over for something truly new in that group. (Though, technically, Picard was supposed to be a different ethnicity from Kirk - it just didn't entirely come through in the day to day acting.)
I know you have this kneejerk reaction against anyone even mentioning a desire for more diverse casting, but representation actually is significant to a series like Star Trek, and it's an aspect that hasn't been done as well as it should've been done. I wish that weren't the case and therefore hope future incarnations will improve.
But even completely ignoring all of that, I still want each new captain to feel different from what we got before. Giving them a unique background (ethnicity, gender, age, species) is not the ONLY way to do that, but it is the EASIEST way to do it and the most reliable way to do it. And it improves representation at the same time, just as a bonus.
Ah, ok. I knew it was a motorcycle/gang sounding show. Not something I'm ever going to watch anyway, probably.
You're talking about visual differences though. Who one appears to be on the outside shouldn't have any bearing on who they are on the inside, their personality, presence and charisma. Especially by the time of Star Trek.
Point is you can easily have a White Male lead without him being derivative of what has come before. Not that I actually want a Pike series though.
It's a western.
Like I already said. Yes, you CAN. But if, say, the lead is a 50 year old samoan woman, then it's guaranteed not to be derivative (in the context of starfleet captains). More differences make for more interesting setups. The franchise has gone back to the standard whitebread american model enough already.
Well that makes it slightly more interesting, but still not particularly high on my radar. Though he certainly has a 'western' sort of a face and presence, so I imagine he fits there very well.
This is the kind of thinking that leads to diversity for the sake of Tokenism.
Perfect casting for Pike. Trek was initially pitched as a 'Wagon train to the stars' and doing a TOS era show that has a western feel would actually fit well.
No. Tokenism comes from thinking that casting is the only thing that matters and once they're there, you don't have to put any further effort in. In reality, ALL of it matters. Not just the actor. But also not just the character concept.
Like I said, I'll give him a chance. But regardless of the original wagon train concept, I've never seen Pike as a particularly 'western-ish' character. Nor can I really say Mount gives any such impression in the trailer.
I've noticed that there is actually less "tokenism" now despite diversity increasing. There's an effort to actually have diverse characters who do bring something different to their shows and movies that would have never happened with a straight white male lead. It helps when there is diversity in the writing staff as well, different people bring different views through their writing. Certain experiences just can't be understood by someone who is the majority no matter how much they study it. I'll honestly never understand why some people reject diversity because it brings new elements to fictions that haven't fully been explored yet. It's like intentionally wanting to limit what you take in for pretty pathetic reasons.
I think that’s less true for SF and Star Trek, though they occasionally use a little bit in the characters, it’s usually a minor thing. Or stereotypes for lighthearted stuff lik Bashir and O’Briens holodeck things...even then, there’s the Alamo.
I'd say that's part and parcel of what I already mentioned before - that Trek long hung its hat on diversity without ever really doing the concept justice.
I do think it improved somewhat over the years, but not as much as I'd like.
I'd also say that's to some extent another big reason why I want to see more diversity in character concepts and ethnicities. Because in general, the characters who are supposed to represent the average white guy have often been written rather generically (like O'Brien, like Riker, like Paris, like Bashir who technically isn't even 'white', but boy did they go out of their way to avoid acknowledging that most of the time). By comparison characters that were designed to be different from the ground up, like Sisko, like Janeway, like Burnham, like the various alien crewmembers (Spock, Data, Odo, Seven, etc) have far more often truly done justice to that idea of actually being different, being unique, being informed by your culture and your circumstances which aren't exactly the same as everyone else's. Yes we also had tokenism (Kim, Mayweather). But then, we had plenty of generic background white guys over the years, too, so I think the record still stands that when the writers actually set out to make a character different, they succeed far more often than when they just leave it up to casting the right actor.
- Status
