"Cause and Effect" -- an interesting point

[JesterFace]

I've thought of the same thing, however...

More than than the shuttle bay door thing, it's annoying that the tractor beam and the bay door seem to be the only things working at the time, engines won't work, shields won't work, eventually warp core can't be shut down OR ejected... I don't watch this episode at all these days.

 

[Timo]

Given how common it is for the ship to unexpectantly get slammed in someway, likely the shuttles are "tied down" in some fashion.

We see time and again that this mysterious securing extends to everything but the people!

That is, only the actors ever shake when told to. Props on tabletop don't.

Perhaps artificial gravity is really, really good at keeping lightweight items in place, or works extremely well close to the pulling surfaces (floors, tabletops), but fails with heavier items placed higher?

A shuttle would be close to the surface and, being squat, unlikely to topple like people. Although I'd assume the shuttle to apply its own gravitic systems to get a secure hold of the floor or ground underneath.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[hux]

The ship is caught in the distortion field. If the thrusters are working but not moving the ship then the ship isn't moving because of an outside influence (the distortion).

With that in mind, decompressing the cargo bay wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

If they're not physically caught in the distortion and it's simply affecting the ships power then the tractor beam shouldn't be accessible either.

Decompressing the cargo bay should have been the only solution available to them from the very start.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I've thought of the same thing, however...

More than than the shuttle bay door thing, it's annoying that the tractor beam and the bay door seem to be the only things working at the time, engines won't work, shields won't work, eventually warp core can't be shut down OR ejected... I don't watch this episode at all these days.

Yes, this is one of my pet peeves with Star Trek. It seems like many times when the warp core is about to breach, that the ejection sub-routines just happen to be conveniently off-line/not working at the same time.

 

[Marsden]

I think, in answer to the OP, that when the shuttle bay goes open to space that the emergency transporter will beam the people out of there.... unless the plot said it didn't.

 

[Timo]

Decompressing the cargo bay should have been the only solution available to them from the very start.

That's just the point, though: the heroes have a nonstandard set of options available to them, which makes them choose poorly. The temporal iteration finally allows Data to choose correctly - but if we were presented with a situation that had "only one solution" because of X, our heroes should automatically know how to act. And if there was no X to limit their options, they should again automatically know how to act, because they would have standard procedures for such.

I've got nothing against a calamity that knocks out some systems but not others. It's a "fluctuating" anomaly that "distorts"; surely it has every excuse to cause odd effects.

It seems like many times when the warp core is about to breach, that the ejection sub-routines just happen to be conveniently off-line/not working at the same time.

And why wouldn't this be? The core ejector is usually needed only when things are going south fast. Surely the odds of a given system not working would be pretty high!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Triskelion]

Given how common it is for the ship to unexpectantly get slammed in someway, likely the shuttles are "tied down" in some fashion.

We see time and again that this mysterious securing extends to everything but the people!

That is, only the actors ever shake when told to. Props on tabletop don't.

Perhaps artificial gravity is really, really good at keeping lightweight items in place, or works extremely well close to the pulling surfaces (floors, tabletops), but fails with heavier items placed higher?

A shuttle would be close to the surface and, being squat, unlikely to topple like people. Although I'd assume the shuttle to apply its own gravitic systems to get a secure hold of the floor or ground underneath.

Timo Saloniemi

MAGNETICS!

 

[Retu]

Given how common it is for the ship to unexpectantly get slammed in someway, likely the shuttles are "tied down" in some fashion.

We see time and again that this mysterious securing extends to everything but the people!

That is, only the actors ever shake when told to. Props on tabletop don't.

Perhaps artificial gravity is really, really good at keeping lightweight items in place, or works extremely well close to the pulling surfaces (floors, tabletops), but fails with heavier items placed higher?

A shuttle would be close to the surface and, being squat, unlikely to topple like people. Although I'd assume the shuttle to apply its own gravitic systems to get a secure hold of the floor or ground underneath.

Timo Saloniemi

MAGNETICS!

Why not just use a simple rope?

A perfect low-tech solution that doesn't need power to operate. Or if you really have to make it sound futuristic: a wire made out of carbon nanotube fibers.

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

I think the idea of decompressing the main shuttlebay was to give the Enterprise the sufficient amount of momemtum to get out of the way of the Bozman thereby avoiding the collision which led to the destruction of the Enterprise according to the time loop.

 

[Takeru]

Yes, this is one of my pet peeves with Star Trek. It seems like many times when the warp core is about to breach, that the ejection sub-routines just happen to be conveniently off-line/not working at the same time.

That's one of the reasons I'll always remember Voyager's Day of Honor, as soon as I heard the line "Computer, eject the warp core!" I thought that's not going to work. I would have liked to see my face when they actually ejected the core.

 

[Mojochi]

I'll just assume if anyone was even in there, they got an emergency beam out.

As to the shuttle bay decompression being strong enough to significantly effect their momentum, wasn't the tractor beam already in effect also? I always assumed that it was the combination of both actions that gave them the needed movement. The ENT-D just gets its nacelle nicked, in all the destruction sequences. All they really needed was an additional few meters of berth, which is why Picard instinctively always went with the tractor beam option. It offered more immediate motion

 

[Paradise City]

What's the harm? There's only extras in the shuttle bay anyway.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'll just assume if anyone was even in there, they got an emergency beam out.

As to the shuttle bay decompression being strong enough to significantly effect their momentum, wasn't the tractor beam already in effect also? I always assumed that it was the combination of both actions that gave them the needed movement. The ENT-D just gets its nacelle nicked, in all the destruction sequences. All they really needed was an additional few meters of berth, which is why Picard instinctively always went with the tractor beam option. It offered more immediate motion

IIRC, when the shuttle bay is decompressed, they aren't using the tractor beam. Data even says "The tractor beam will not be successful" - he doesn't even try it, because he knows it won't work.

 

[DonIago]

I've always assumed that the tractor beam functioned but was in a compromised state due either to the anomaly itself or the power fluctuations caused by the anomaly.

In other words, Data's suggestion of using the tractor beam would have been entirely correct except for variables he couldn't have anticipated.

As for whomever may have been in the shuttle bay at the time, beaming them back aboard makes sense, assuming they weren't beamed out at the time the doors were opened or such (that said, transporters may have been compromised much as other ship's systems were).

In a worst-case scenario though, sacrificing whomever was in the shuttlebay to prevent catastrophic damage that would kill several hundred people (and that's assuming the Bozeman survived the impact, which I'm not sure we should take for granted) seems like a reasonable thing to do. Actually, that scenario occurs in one of the novels.

 

[T'Girl]

I wouldn't think that given the limited time, the thousand plus people aboard the ship, and the relative few in the bay, that Data wouldn't have delayed opening the door to arrange transporting out anyone in the bay first.

Afterwards trying to grab anyone still in the bay or blown out into space perhaps, but not before.

 

[Mojochi]

I'll just assume if anyone was even in there, they got an emergency beam out.

As to the shuttle bay decompression being strong enough to significantly effect their momentum, wasn't the tractor beam already in effect also? I always assumed that it was the combination of both actions that gave them the needed movement. The ENT-D just gets its nacelle nicked, in all the destruction sequences. All they really needed was an additional few meters of berth, which is why Picard instinctively always went with the tractor beam option. It offered more immediate motion

IIRC, when the shuttle bay is decompressed, they aren't using the tractor beam. Data even says "The tractor beam will not be successful" - he doesn't even try it, because he knows it won't work.

Worf initiates the tractor beam, on Picard's order, & announces it, just like every other time. Then, Data realized it "will not be successful", says so (sort of to himself) & then decompresses the shuttle bay. I'm pretty sure they both happened. I may have to rewatch tonight to be sure, but I think you can even hear the sound of the beam under Data's lines while he does it.

Edit: Yup. I just rewatched that part, & Worf announces that he's initiating the tractor beam, then there's some seconds while Data realizes & peers over at Riker's pips. While that is going on, you can hear a sound from the terminal that would seem to signify that the beam is active. Then Data says his line about it being unsuccessful, & begins to decompress the shuttle bay. When they show the Enterprise clear the Bozeman, the beam isn't active though. So maybe they did deactivate it? But it definitely seemed to be on for a while... tractoring. lol

 

[keith2282]

I just assumed that there was safeguards in place through automation with the computer. That far in the future I would guess that they have some very good safeguards. I could be wrong though.
The thing that irritates me in this episode is the fact that everything magically comes online the moment the other ship passes. How convenient.
On a side note, this episode has a special place for me, even with it's shortcomings. This as a kid was the first episode of any Star Trek I have ever seen and got me started in what will become my favorite series of shows ever.

 

[DonIago]

There may be safeguards that are intended to be in place, but failed under this specific set of circumstances for the same reasons that other ship's systems were compromised.

If you assume the system failures occurred for reasons related to the temporal causality loop, it sort of makes sense that the systems would be restored once the loop had been broken. On the other hand, it could be a massive coincidence.

 

[Timo]

In a worst-case scenario though, sacrificing whomever was in the shuttlebay to prevent catastrophic damage that would kill several hundred people...

...Now would any of the heroes work on the basis of a worst-case scenario? They seem like an optimistic bunch in general.

Thanks to his computing abilities, and calm and accurate observations ongoing throughout the rapidly evolving crisis, Data at the last second might have decided that sacrificing people was absolutely necessary. But none of that applies to Riker, who originally suggests the maneuver at an early point in the crisis. Is he being callous - or is he suggesting something fundamentally harmless?

When they show the Enterprise clear the Bozeman, the beam isn't active though. So maybe they did deactivate it? But it definitely seemed to be on for a while... tractoring. lol

Good observations! And tractor beams have always allowed the tractoring ship to rather precisely handle the target ship or object - so, clearly not just pulling but also pushing or twisting. Why was "The Naked Now" different?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

^ I can't recall how they used the tractor beam in The Naked Now. Was it just a tow?

I always got the feeling that the tractor beam in C&E was something of a Hail Mary pass. They just jammed it on hastily, to jerk the ship out of the way, to some random degree. I mean, I can imagine it's not really designed for that, but it is a beam & can be directed. After it's boosted, that is essentially how they use it in Deja-Q, on that moon, altering its trajectory