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CAST FOR THE HOBBIT ANNOUNCED

Peter Jackson is doing The Hobbit. Although Tolkien's kind of racism could easily be (even more) sharply distinguished from the Nazi/Klansman kind by a little creative recasting, Jackson's not the man to do it. The orcs could have been cave dweller white, with great visual effect, but its no accident they weren't in my opinion.

When US fiction and drama imagine a future without any significant foreigners, it is not wishful thinking, it is just a projection of the present. Especially the ever present disdain for foreigners. It is a truism that science fiction is always about the present, for good reason. It is usually a political statement when US writers imagine a future where there are significant foreigners. Xenophobia is never far away in US society. When English science fiction imagines a future in which the US has conveniently disappeared and England is the center again, it is however fantasy in the negative sense, delusional.

It is merely weakminded to dismiss a simple factual characterization of reality, however sardonic, as "hateful." It's like saying the disappearance of money worries (and the economy generally) in fantasy isn't driven by fears and failures in real life. A distaste for history, politics, economics and society may lead to a preference for fantasy deliberately removed from reality, a delight in escapism. But Tolkien knew the difference between escape from and escape into.

Which is why the real problem with The Hobbit is not the casting (desirable as it may be to minimize the Tolkien's fetish about breeding.) It's the inordinate length. Lord of the Rings had many faults but it was saved by an intense focus on a serious moral issue, physical cowardice. The hero of that story failed. This gives LOTR a power other fantasies, like the juvenile Elric can never hope for (despite the fake left posturing of ninnies like Michael Moorcock and Hal Duncan.) Under all the delight in Tolkien's worldbuilding powers and in the nostalgia of it all, what is there in this children's story to really make us care. We've already seen the Eagles come to the battle, after all.
 
stj said:
When English science fiction imagines a future in which the US has conveniently disappeared and England is the center again, it is however fantasy in the negative sense, delusional.
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The level of power s equally delusional in American entertainment, especially if one considers we saw American-centric views of the future long before the United States became the world's only superpower.

Consider any American show set in space, where the racial balance only reflects the reality of the United States - that is, a white majority and various nonwhite minorities. That's not at all consistent with the world's population and even in the event of an American led world, not a likely population of the space fleet.

One finds this tendency in the science fiction of any society, really. Why does Godzilla attack Tokyo, and why do the robots in Panic Attack! go after Montevideo? Best check out the nationality of the filmmakers of either piece to figure that out.
 
Kegg said:
The level of power s equally delusional in American entertainment, especially if one considers we saw American-centric views of the future long before the United States became the world's only superpower.
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There are still US troops in Germany and Japan and Korea, and pretty much all over the world. Sovereign funds finance the US deficits. I'm not sure you have a clear grasp on the concept of power. Suffice it to say, the verdicts of WWII will not be overturned save by violence.

The Cold War vision of US leadership of the Free World was a staple in US movie making, including scifi. When scifi ignored the Red Menace, it was making a political statement. And if we go back to the Thirties, isolation behind two oceans in a world without television satellites made visions of the future without foreigners very, very different from today's fiction and drama disappearing the US.

One finds this tendency in the science fiction of any society, really. Why does Godzilla attack Tokyo, and why do the robots in Panic Attack! go after Montevideo? Best check out the nationality of the filmmakers of either piece to figure that out.
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Godzilla attacks Tokyo because it was Hiroshima and Nagasaki that got bombed. Which makes mentioning the US in that context problematic. Also, nostalgia for the Empire plays a role. It's not only expressed by visits to the Yakasune shrine.

However, if the point is that jingoism can infect the fiction and drama of any society, why, quite correct.
 
CATE BLANCHETT, KEN STOTT, SYLVESTER MCCOY, MIKAEL PERSBRANDT JOIN CAST OF PETER JACKSON’S “THE HOBBIT”


  • Cate Blanchett as Galadriel, the Lady of Lothlorien
  • Ken Stott as Dwarf Lord Balin
  • Sylvester McCoy as the wizard Radagast the Brown
  • Mikael Persbrandt as the shape-shifter Beorn
  • Ryan Gage as Drogo Baggins
  • Jed Brophy as the dwarf Nori
  • William Kircher as the dwarf Bifur.

Source

I'm thrilled that Cate's going to be back. That pretty much confirms the White Council (as if there were any doubt at this point).
 
stj said:
Godzilla attacks Tokyo because it was Hiroshima and Nagasaki that got bombed.
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Fine. Try my other example.

Aside from being the capital city of the nation from which the director originated, is there any reason why Panic Attack! should depict robots attacking Montevideo and not the usual suspects?

Science ficton is, like a lot of fiction, often local. Philip K. Dick wrote of a thousand weird realities but he based them almost enirely in California. Such is the way of things.
 
If the cast for The Hobbit is considered racist, it's because somebody deliberately took offense. It's not as if black people were completely barred from auditioning for the roles, and in fact I don't recall any Lord of the Rings or Hobbit characters being mentioned as any specific skin color in the books, except maybe the Elves and some notable Humans. It seems like more often recently that people are quick to jump to cries of racism.
 
Kegg said:
Science ficton is, like a lot of fiction, often local. Philip K. Dick wrote of a thousand weird realities but he based them almost enirely in California. Such is the way of things.
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Kind of like how a certain alien who can travel to literally anywhere at anytime, yet he seems to spend the majority of his time on Earth hanging around a little island off the coast of France... :shifty:
 
Kegg said:
Fine. Try my other example.

Aside from being the capital city of the nation from which the director originated, is there any reason why Panic Attack! should depict robots attacking Montevideo and not the usual suspects?
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Not having seen Panic Attack! I couldn't say whether or not the robots aren't just as much the US as Godzilla was.

I'm not quite sure what you're arguing, that the common US disappearance of foreigners doesn't reflect US disdain for foeigners (or in earlier works isolation in another hemisphere?) Or whether you're saying that when other nations, with much closer neigherbors, dominated by the US, disappear the US from their fiction and drama the motives are simple insularity? As for the first, I wish I could argue that US nationals are not mostly virulently xenophobic but that would be a lie. As for the second, please permit me to be skeptical.
 
itisnotlogical said:
If the cast for The Hobbit is considered racist, it's because somebody deliberately took offense. It's not as if black people were completely barred from auditioning for the roles, and in fact I don't recall any Lord of the Rings or Hobbit characters being mentioned as any specific skin color in the books, except maybe the Elves and some notable Humans. It seems like more often recently that people are quick to jump to cries of racism.
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I'm not objecting to the actual casting. Someone here, in this thread, made a comment to the effect that nonwhite actors shouldn't be in this film because the books' version of Middle-earth was supposed to be prehistoric Europe, and I disagreed with that logic because the film is a different reality from the books. As I already stated quite clearly, I'm not saying the film's cast has to be diverse, I just don't agree with the assertion that it can't be.
 
How are the LOTR films in a different reality than the books? They both take place in Middle-Earth don't they? Are you referring to the creative changes that were made for dramatic purposes and time constraints that most adaptions undertake? If that's the case then that doesn't mean it's a different reality. It's a filmed adaption of a book series with the book as the prime source material.
 
Good to see that Sylvester McCoy has finally been officially confirmed. I'm also excited about Cate Blanchett returning as Galadriel, not only because she's wonderful, but I like to think this means there will be at least several scenes involving the The White Council (and therefore several scenes with McCoy). I'm a little disappointed that Mikael Persbrandt was cast as Beorn because I had been hoping Ron Perlman would be cast in the role (especially considering del Toro's comments last year) but Persbrandt looks the part.
 
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This is true of a lot of fantasy and sci-fi, though, even those which make a point of being biracial. When you have a bunch of nonhuman races coloration differences between varieties of humans begin to seem less important.
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indeed, in the Discworld books, Sir Terry Pratchett once noted 'Black and White gang up on Green'...
 
Admiral_Young said:
How are the LOTR films in a different reality than the books? They both take place in Middle-Earth don't they? Are you referring to the creative changes that were made for dramatic purposes and time constraints that most adaptions undertake? If that's the case then that doesn't mean it's a different reality. It's a filmed adaption of a book series with the book as the prime source material.
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Well, it's a different reality insofar as it's an adaptation for a different medium. Just like the Batman movies take place in a different reality from the comics (cockney Alfred, Joker who merely paints his face white, Caucasian Ra's Al Ghul etc), ditto the Spider-man movies (organic webshooters anyone?).

In LOTR, there have been changes to plot, character and sequence. All for the better, IMHO. It's still a pretty faithful adaptation but an adaptation by definition takes place in a different reality.
 
Looks like Orlando Bloom might be returning as Legalos. From TheOneRing.net:

Deadline.com is reporting that Orlando Bloom is expected to reprise his role as Legolas Greenleaf in the upcoming ‘Hobbit’ films. You may ask, how can this be? Well, quite simply, the character of Legolas was very much alive during the timeframe of The Hobbit. In fact, he was probably several thousand years old at the time of The Lord of the Rings! Since Legolas is the son of Thranduil (The Elvenking), a major player in ‘The Hobbit,’ one can easily see Peter, Phillipa, and Fran writing him into the script. *MINOR SPOILERS* Not only would he appear in Mirkwood with the other wood-elves, he could very well lead the wood-elf contingent into the Battle of Five Armies! Deadline also mentions the negotiations for Ian McKellen, Hugo Weaving and Andy Serkis are still ongoing.
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I could take or leave Orlando Bloom, but Andy Serkis and Ian McKellen are essential; so I hope they clinch the deals there.

And Elrond just wouldn't be the same either.
 
Agreed on all counts. I'm also hoping that PJ can work something out with Christopher Lee to get him to return as Saruman.
 
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