Because of your avatar, I'm just going to assume that every audiobook you narrate is done in the voice of Quagmire from Family Guy.
Carol Marcus
- Thread starter Believer Bob
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That seems to be well in line with the rest of Khan - a movie about ageing gracefully. Kirk and Marcus aren't two young beautiful people exploring through space and getting caught up in the passionate adventure of it all (like so many of Kirk's relationships in the series). They are two middle aged adults who have already been seperated for decades because they knew they weren't right for each other, being pushed together once again by decisions and sins of the past. Marcus' decision to hide her son from Kirk. Marcus' decision not to tell David the truth of his parentage. Kirk's womanizing and inability to stay in one place. His failure to ever look back to past events - or he'd known about David and maybe had a with his son. He'd have known about Celtic Alpha 5.
It'd be weird if they did end up together again.
It'd be weird if they did end up together again.
Kirk knew about about David before the movie:
"I did what you wanted...I stayed away."
I take that more as him staying away from her than him staying away from David. In the same conversation we also get "You could have told me " "I wanted him in my world , not galvanting around the Galaxy with his father" and "You show me a son that'd be happy to help. My son... my life that could have been... and wasn't."
Kirk says "You could have told him" rather than "You could have told me". Keeping the identity of his father from him was how Carol got David to stay with her rather than run off to join Starfleet like his old man.
That was part of the dialogue that was added during reshoots. It was specifically meant to clarify that Kirk was aware that he'd had a son. Apparently, in the first cut, it was rather ambiguous.
Does anyone know if the bit of David overpowering Kirk in the Genesis cave was part of this original cut? From what I understand, this was changed to Kirk easily disarming David at William Shatner's insistence.
^ I think so, yeah. That particular still has been making the rounds for decades now, on the theatrical one-sheet, the VHS box, even some of the YA books from the early '80s, if I remember my elementary school's library correctly. Evidently it was another reshot scene.
I assumed that was a publicity still, especially because of the way David is looking into the camera and not at Kirk. It's an intriguing shot, who is this person holding a knife to our lead? How did this happen? It's not really important if it didn't ever happen, it got you to watch the movie.
In the film, David clearly doesn't like Starfleet much. Is there really a risk he'd run off to JOIN an organization he hates?
Well, considering that his opinion of Starfleet warmed up pretty quickly in TWOK and he was working directly with them in the next film, could be.
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I suppose David's attitude towards Starfleet was colored by the fact that his mother raised him alone. If Jim had been involved, David might have turned out a lot different.
I admit I'm curious as to how the Abramsverse counterpart of Carol managed to join Starfleet. There was no indication Carol Prime ever did, was there?
I admit I'm curious as to how the Abramsverse counterpart of Carol managed to join Starfleet. There was no indication Carol Prime ever did, was there?
It's a shame Carol didn't return, even just for a scene in TSFS where Kirk contacts her about David.
We're left wondering whether she did - for the main body of the adventure, her rank might have been just as fake as her surname. FWIW, Spock seems to continue to accept her doctorate after looking her up, but does not acknowledge her rank any longer.
She might go through the paperwork to turn herself into a real Lieutenant by the time of the Five-Year Mission, as the training involved might not take particularly long. Say, McCoy appeared to be fully commissioned by the time Cadet Kirk still struggled with his no-win scenario, and Kirk was moving exceptionally fast for a command-line Cadet.
Timo Saloniemi
Doctors are typically granted commissions right out of the gate.
Carol wore a Starfleet uniform in STID, and was (IIRC) addressed as Lieutenant, so that tends to be a giveaway.
And I'm sure her father was an admiral in the prime timeline as well, as the divergence was only 33 years ago and he was probably already in Starfleet by then. Don't know if he was an evil scumbag like his Abramsverse version, though.
In TNG, this apparently no longer holds true. Also, it may be that in TNG, doctors study medicine at Starfleet Academy. But TOS and its Abramsverse counterpart might well follow the practice of rewarding academic credentials with commission above Ensign rank. That McCoy would be a Lieutenant Commander the moment he boards the Enterprise is still better interpreted IMHO as him holding that rank after having graduated as Lieutenant and then worked his way up the ladder whilst Kirk struggled with his graduate studies.
For how the authors might have thought of this issue, here's that alternate take on TMP, with the character Xon, who is stated to be a Lieutenant (j.g.) right out of the Academy: this leads Kirk to conclude that he must be "one of yours", one of McCoy's MDs, until it is pointed out that Vulcans also automatically graduate at Lt (j.g.) rank...
But since that was a sham, it might be that Carol's keel-hauling for stealing the uniform was postponed until the conclusion of the adventure, and in actual fact she was but a cunning civilian with access to daddy's uniform fabricator...
Since Marcus in the movie could well be less than 33 years old, t's not even certain she has the same father as her prime universe counterpart! The Abramsverse has plenty of central characters who are biologically distinct from their prime counterparts (and not just played by a different actor); theoretically, everybody younger than Kirk is different, and in practice at least Chekov certainly is.
Timo Saloniemi
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