"Caretaker" Questions

[Kobayshi Maru]

That hardly makes Emery and Henry peers if one of them is inventing a magic new science the Vulcan do not understand or believe in and the other is repeating science problems the Vulcans licked 9 hundred years earlier.

Which brings up an interesting question in itself. Suppose you have no information at all about a technology, except the knowledge that it (transporters, warp 5) is possible because someone else has done it.

Let's say you have been witnessing a beamout of a vulcan from your location and that is all. You've never been able to see the transporters, or obtain any other information about it.

Still, you manage to invent the technology. How much lesser is your achievement as 'second inventor' than the achievement of the 'absolute inventor'?

Most of the things we've invented we've learned that they were possible by observing nature. I read there are small bugs that defends themselves against big predators by using their abdomens as a tiny exploding devices (imagine if one of your farts would project you across the room ), the first guy who made a bomb could have got it from them.

 

[borgboy]

Logic is not a given. All Vulcans are born murderous brutes that want to burn cities down if they can't get their way.

Logic is something that is done to their kids, like circumcision.

It doesn't matter how many times you circumcise every consecutive male in a lineage, evolution is not going to take a hint and do it for you. Babies are not going to eject from their womb precircumised.

Besides evolution can't exert pressure on a civil society that takes care of it's weak, or/and allows the weak to breed with the strong.

Any Vulcan child not raised with logic will be a seething, scheming wrath driven Romulan.

It's not a question of 5000 years, it's question of parents brain washing children.

For what it's worth, I read a TOS novel a couple of months ago where a Vulcan woman who was found abandoned as an infant and adopted and raised by Vulcans turned out to be a Romulan, who was otherwise completely Vulcan in her personality and morality. Presumably she wouldn't be telepathic or experience Pon Farr, although those issues aren't addressed.
Regardless, I thought it was an interesting point that if a Vulcan could be raised without logic to be a Romulan, that apparently the reverse works too.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Logic is not a given. All Vulcans are born murderous brutes that want to burn cities down if they can't get their way.

Logic is something that is done to their kids, like circumcision.

It doesn't matter how many times you circumcise every consecutive male in a lineage, evolution is not going to take a hint and do it for you. Babies are not going to eject from their womb precircumised.

Besides evolution can't exert pressure on a civil society that takes care of it's weak, or/and allows the weak to breed with the strong.

Any Vulcan child not raised with logic will be a seething, scheming wrath driven Romulan.

It's not a question of 5000 years, it's question of parents brain washing children.

For what it's worth, I read a TOS novel a couple of months ago where a Vulcan woman who was found abandoned as an infant and adopted and raised by Vulcans turned out to be a Romulan, who was otherwise completely Vulcan in her personality and morality. Presumably she wouldn't be telepathic or experience Pon Farr, although those issues aren't addressed.
Regardless, I thought it was an interesting point that if a Vulcan could be raised without logic to be a Romulan, that apparently the reverse works too.

Aren't Vulcans and Romulans supposed to be physiologically identical?

 

[borgboy]

Logic is not a given. All Vulcans are born murderous brutes that want to burn cities down if they can't get their way.

Logic is something that is done to their kids, like circumcision.

It doesn't matter how many times you circumcise every consecutive male in a lineage, evolution is not going to take a hint and do it for you. Babies are not going to eject from their womb precircumised.

Besides evolution can't exert pressure on a civil society that takes care of it's weak, or/and allows the weak to breed with the strong.

Any Vulcan child not raised with logic will be a seething, scheming wrath driven Romulan.

It's not a question of 5000 years, it's question of parents brain washing children.

For what it's worth, I read a TOS novel a couple of months ago where a Vulcan woman who was found abandoned as an infant and adopted and raised by Vulcans turned out to be a Romulan, who was otherwise completely Vulcan in her personality and morality. Presumably she wouldn't be telepathic or experience Pon Farr, although those issues aren't addressed.
Regardless, I thought it was an interesting point that if a Vulcan could be raised without logic to be a Romulan, that apparently the reverse works too.

Aren't Vulcans and Romulans supposed to be physiologically identical?

I believe that book said there was a very minor difference between the two races, something barely detectable. There is the issue of the Romulan forehead. Some Romulans don't seem to have it, and Spock was able to impersonate a Romulan on their homeworld without it. No Vulcans are known to have the Romulan forehead, so that does seem to be a physical difference.
I think that Romulans aren't telepathic, which has been a plot point in some novels, including details on Saavik's background, that she was born in a breeding camp where captive Vulcans were being forced to breed with Romulans to see if their hybrid children were telepathic.
I think there's debate but no clear answer on what causes Pon Farr. There's no evidence that Romulans go thru Pon Farr, but the controversy is whether Vulcan Pon Farr is caused by their emotional repression or if it's a biological mutation.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

For what it's worth, I read a TOS novel a couple of months ago where a Vulcan woman who was found abandoned as an infant and adopted and raised by Vulcans turned out to be a Romulan, who was otherwise completely Vulcan in her personality and morality. Presumably she wouldn't be telepathic or experience Pon Farr, although those issues aren't addressed.
Regardless, I thought it was an interesting point that if a Vulcan could be raised without logic to be a Romulan, that apparently the reverse works too.

Aren't Vulcans and Romulans supposed to be physiologically identical?

I believe that book said there was a very minor difference between the two races, something barely detectable. There is the issue of the Romulan forehead. Some Romulans don't seem to have it, and Spock was able to impersonate a Romulan on their homeworld without it. No Vulcans are known to have the Romulan forehead, so that does seem to be a physical difference.
I think that Romulans aren't telepathic, which has been a plot point in some novels, including details on Saavik's background, that she was born in a breeding camp where captive Vulcans were being forced to breed with Romulans to see if their hybrid children were telepathic.
I think there's debate but no clear answer on what causes Pon Farr. There's no evidence that Romulans go thru Pon Farr, but the controversy is whether Vulcan Pon Farr is caused by their emotional repression or if it's a biological mutation.

It's funny that Spock is only half-Vulcan and yet he goes through Pon Farr, technically he's more different from a regular Vulcan than a Romulan is.

 

[borgboy]

Aren't Vulcans and Romulans supposed to be physiologically identical?

I believe that book said there was a very minor difference between the two races, something barely detectable. There is the issue of the Romulan forehead. Some Romulans don't seem to have it, and Spock was able to impersonate a Romulan on their homeworld without it. No Vulcans are known to have the Romulan forehead, so that does seem to be a physical difference.
I think that Romulans aren't telepathic, which has been a plot point in some novels, including details on Saavik's background, that she was born in a breeding camp where captive Vulcans were being forced to breed with Romulans to see if their hybrid children were telepathic.
I think there's debate but no clear answer on what causes Pon Farr. There's no evidence that Romulans go thru Pon Farr, but the controversy is whether Vulcan Pon Farr is caused by their emotional repression or if it's a biological mutation.

It's funny that Spock is only half-Vulcan and yet he goes through Pon Farr, technically he's more different from a regular Vulcan than a Romulan is.

That's an interesting point. Spock's father was pure Vulcan and maybe has a gene for Pon Farr or whatever that causes Pon Farr, while if the Vulcans didn't evolve the Pon Farr until after the Romulan ancestors left, they couldn't have it.
For what it's worth, Saavik is half Romulan in the novels and comics, and both have shown her going thru Pon Farr. I'm actually drawing a blank on if she's ever seen anywhere to be able to mind meld with a non Vulcan, which leaves it unknown if she's actually telepathic, although I generally assume she is.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Spock's older brother is Sybok the Laughing Vulcan.

Their father's sperms are complete failures.

It's no wonder that no Vulcan woman wanted a bar of Sarek after that.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Spock's older brother is Sybok the Laughing Vulcan.

Their father's sperms are complete failures.

It's no wonder that no Vulcan woman wanted a bar of Sarak after that.

But Sybok had a gift he could see dead peop..., er I mean, your pain and take it away! of course after that you become a zombie at his mercy, ready to betray everything you believed in before... but that's an unfortunate side effect.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm pretty sure Sybok ate some bad lichen while out on his puberty desert death march they make them do to be real Vulcans.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I hate sport.

Stupid fucking Superbowl fucking with my Monday afternoon.

IWANTMYGOODWIFEANDIWANTITNOW!!

Only the Black List has the stones to go up against the Superbowl.

What a brave little solider.

You would think that how the Vulcans treat their children would retroactively disqualify them from Federation membership.

 

[Catarina]

Stupid fucking Superbowl fucking with my Monday afternoon.

IWANTMYGOODWIFEANDIWANTITNOW!!.

Yeah!!

Sorry, not really worth a whole post but felt urged to agree publicly.

 

[borgboy]

I hate sport.

Stupid fucking Superbowl fucking with my Monday afternoon.

IWANTMYGOODWIFEANDIWANTITNOW!!

Only the Black List has the stones to go up against the Superbowl.

What a brave little solider.

You would think that how the Vulcans treat their children would retroactively disqualify them from Federation membership.

I hate Sarek. He's a monster to Spock, controlling, even racist. Spock dare not show an iota of humanity, he must follow Sarek's career path. Just choosing a different career was enough to get him disowned for something like 18 years. That Amanda let him get away with that garbage reflects badly on her. I'd have left him over that.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I hate sport.

Stupid fucking Superbowl fucking with my Monday afternoon.

IWANTMYGOODWIFEANDIWANTITNOW!!

Only the Black List has the stones to go up against the Superbowl.

What a brave little solider.

You would think that how the Vulcans treat their children would retroactively disqualify them from Federation membership.

The only valid reason to use a Superbowl is when you have ginormous bowel movements... but then maybe you shouldn't eat so much...

 

[kirkfan]

I hate sport.

Stupid fucking Superbowl fucking with my Monday afternoon.

IWANTMYGOODWIFEANDIWANTITNOW!!

Only the Black List has the stones to go up against the Superbowl.

What a brave little solider.

You would think that how the Vulcans treat their children would retroactively disqualify them from Federation membership.

I hate Sarek. He's a monster to Spock, controlling, even racist. Spock dare not show an iota of humanity, he must follow Sarek's career path. Just choosing a different career was enough to get him disowned for something like 18 years. That Amanda let him get away with that garbage reflects badly on her. I'd have left him over that.

Without Sarek, Spock would never have become born again Vulcan though... literally!