Given that this thread is about Cardassians in the TOS era, I don’t think anyone is gonna start suggesting that we should also bring the Bolians, Benzites, etc.
Cardassians in TOS
- Thread starter Snowdrop82
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Given that this thread is about Cardassians in the TOS era, I don’t think anyone is gonna start suggesting that we should also bring the Bolians, Benzites, etc.
Pretty much this. People are taking "the creature that calls itself a Gorn" line completely out of context just to be SNW apologists. It is crystal clear in "Arena" that neither Kirk nor the rest of his crew have ever seen or heard of these aliens before.
Well, not in this thread anyway
But I'm sure it's coming soon to a thread near you.
Similarly, in the light of the Short Treks episode "The Trouble with Edward" it's now pretty far fetched that no one on the Enterprise had ever heard of Tribbles considering that they were responsible for the destruction of the USS Cabot. And Kirk and company now look really slow on the uptake in realizing that Khan is Khan Noonian Singh in "Space Seed," considering that Kirk, Spock, Chapel, and Uhura all served with his descendant in SNW.
It's the prequel dilemma. It's just too darn tempting to play with all the toys even if it doesn't make logical sense to have them at that earlier point in time. About the only prequel I've ever seen that managed to avoid contradictions like that is Better Call Saul, and I understand that one of the staffers on that show would rewatch Breaking Bad every year largely to make sure that BCS wasn't contradicting it.
I like SNW. I like it a lot. I think it's the only recent Trek show to really capture that TOS type feeling that's so sorely missing in later shows but moving forward I am going to consider SNW to be a reboot, just like the Kelvin stuff. TOS remains what it is, frozen in time forever immune to any later show shenanigans and meddling. At least I keep telling myself that.
I think a lot of the Short Treks can be considered non-canon. I haven’t seen the tribbles one, but I did love “Calypso”, yet that short starts to look more and more non-canonical as DISCOVERY moves forward.
I regard SNW as a “soft reboot”, but I don’t mean that disparagingly. I’m not against reboots. In fact, I always felt Abrams’ film was not a hard enough reboot, given the unnecessary appearance of Nimoy who feels like he was just thrown in to appease skeptical fans. In fact, SNW actually is what I kind of wanted more of back in 2009. It has more similarities than not with TOS, but enough differences to make it be it’s own thing and still tell good stories. I only wish we get more than ten episodes a season, but beggars can’t be choosers.
I regard SNW as a “soft reboot”, but I don’t mean that disparagingly. I’m not against reboots. In fact, I always felt Abrams’ film was not a hard enough reboot, given the unnecessary appearance of Nimoy who feels like he was just thrown in to appease skeptical fans. In fact, SNW actually is what I kind of wanted more of back in 2009. It has more similarities than not with TOS, but enough differences to make it be it’s own thing and still tell good stories. I only wish we get more than ten episodes a season, but beggars can’t be choosers.
Yeah, I look at SNW in pretty much the same way. I can imagine that events something like SNW happened in the universe of TOS, but not exactly what SNW has shown us. There are just too many contradictions for me to consider it anything but an alternate-but-still-similar universe/timeline. Whenever I watch TOS, I still consider Chapel to be a woman with a hopeless crush on Mr. Spock, notI like SNW. I like it a lot. I think it's the only recent Trek show to really capture that TOS type feeling that's so sorely missing in later shows but moving forward I am going to consider SNW to be a reboot, just like the Kelvin stuff. TOS remains what it is, frozen in time forever immune to any later show shenanigans and meddling. At least I keep telling myself that.
an ex-girlfriend hoping to rekindle things with him.
I like SNW. I like it a lot. I think it's the only recent Trek show to really capture that TOS type feeling that's so sorely missing in later shows but moving forward I am going to consider SNW to be a reboot, just like the Kelvin stuff. TOS remains what it is, frozen in time forever immune to any later show shenanigans and meddling. At least I keep telling myself that.
I also like SNW, and even hope it gets a third season. But I will never look at it any other way than a show that is based on Star Trek: The Original Series.
I can roll with some things like Chapel being an ex, because TOS never really dwelled too much on the idea of a potential Spock/Chapel thing anyway, and it never goes anywhere so with that in hindsight they have essentially moved on with their lives as colleagues. No one is bitter. No one is hurt.
Is the continuity flimsy? Yeah, but then again continuity even within TOS could be flimsy as well, so it’s not so damning for me. But if the creators one day came up and said “oh, it takes place in a universe independent from both Prime and Kelvin”, okay!
Anyway, about those bloody Cardies.
Is the continuity flimsy? Yeah, but then again continuity even within TOS could be flimsy as well, so it’s not so damning for me. But if the creators one day came up and said “oh, it takes place in a universe independent from both Prime and Kelvin”, okay!
Anyway, about those bloody Cardies.
"Prime Universe" means the "agreed upon continuity using bits and pieces of over 60 years of the Star Trek franchise", as such SNW is going to align more with the continuity derived from the much larger oveure of the Berman era. Unfortunately, because the Berman era chose to ignore or change huge chunks of TOS's worldbuilding, continuity with TOS is now going to be shakey.
Let’s be real here. The producers of DSC, where this all started, didn’t give a flying crap about being in continuity with TOS. And that’s fine…if the show was being billed as a reboot/reimagining of the 2250’s era of Star Trek. But that’s not what it was billed as. It was billed as a prequel to TOS while going out of their way to make it look absolutely nothing like TOS. Then a certain segment of the fandom rationalizes this by saying that it’s a ‘visual reboot’ and that we actually can no longer trust what our own eyes show us, and vehemently oppose any opinions to the contrary.
But then someone else in charge decides that making the show look nothing like TOS was a huge mistake, and then starts trying to retcon things to give their new show a more TOS feel but also still feels beholden to continue with aspects that DSC started, and now we have a show that’s half-TOS and half whatever DSC was trying to be. All while still trying to make retcons to TOS such as the Gorn and Spock’s relationship with Chapel. Not to mention having a descendant of Khan’s serving on the Enterprise that TOS Kirk somehow forgets about when he meets Khan in person.
What makes you think he forgot? She’s no longer on board by that point, so it’s not like bringing her up would mean much to the situation at hand.
How do we know she’s no longer on board by ‘Space Seed?’
If things had played out similarly as they did in “A Quality of Mercy”, she’d be a first officer on the Farragut. Or at the very least she still moved up in her career away from the Enterprise, along with Ortegas and Number One.
But that was an alternate timeline. It’s no more valid than assuming that things would work out the same way in the AGT anti-time future. And if La’an was on the Farragut because she wanted to be with Kirk (admittedly a deduction based on what knowledge we have of the two of them) then she probably would have stayed on the Enterprise once Kirk took command.
Yep. But until we know that for certain, we are free to speculate.
Absolutely.
If they feel that want to match up to TOS, they'll come up with something. If they don't, well I treat the shows as separate entities working of similar concepts anyway. Nothing they do today impacts a show filmed over 55 years ago. It'll be interesting to see not only the showrunners handle everything, but how fans twist it all like pretzels to make it fit.
Which is how I interpret the show.
True. Kirk and company will still act as if they've never heard of the Gorn before.
Not to my taste, I'm sure. But then you can't please all of the fandom all of the time.
Well, I'm far less interested in what the fans think, because their opinions don't matter to me. I will enjoy the show the way I want to, because it's all fiction and subject to the whims of whoever is currently in charge of what constitutes Star Trek 'canon.' (and even then I don't need to treat it as gospel, because someone else can always come along and negate it later.)
I'm pretty confident we'll see the senior staff in SNW that do not show up in TOS make their exits in whatever fashion. One thing I find appealing about the show is that this specific crew has a definite parting of ways ahead of them before the show's end. Hemmer died, so we already know why he isn't around for TOS.
At least for me, there's no reason to assume La'an is still on board during "Space Seed". She could have easily taken a new assignment. Or be dead. She along with Ortegas and Number One essentially have blank futures unlike the legacy characters.
At least for me, there's no reason to assume La'an is still on board during "Space Seed". She could have easily taken a new assignment. Or be dead. She along with Ortegas and Number One essentially have blank futures unlike the legacy characters.
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