Cardassians in TOS

[Golbolco]

This would be my preference, and the earlier TNG map (the 3D one with the boxes) had both far away from the Federation core, which would support that view.

Unfortunately, in DS9, presumably to justify the rapid travel times between DS9/Earth/Cardassia/Feringar, both homeworlds got moved considerably closer to Earth, so it makes a later discovery harder to justify. It's probably more egregious for the Ferengi, as Feringar was probably way too close to Earth to justify not knowing what Ferengi even looked like until the 2360s.

If you take some of the distances in LY given in DS9 and add another zero I think they make a lot more sense. That would put:

• Bajor from Earth at a distance of 500 LY
• Ferenginar from Bajor at a distance of 600 LY (probably in a direction further from Earth)
• Cardassia from Bajor at 50 LY (if Cardassia is an interstellar power they apparently occupied a 5LY star system only very late into their history, seems unusual to me)

Recalling that Picard describes a Federation that is 1,000LY across at its most distant points, and that Ferenginar and Cardassia are both capitals of interstellar powers with presumably a bit of distance between them and the nearest Federation outposts, these numbers make sense to me.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I’d prefer them and the Ferengi be unknown in TOS…discovered later on post TUC

Yeah. I just don't see the benefit to using the Cardassians or the Ferengi in the TOS era or before. The same with Betazoids. Why make the various eras of Star Trek even more homogenous than they already are?

I do like the gag of Chekov playing chess with a Betazoid without realizing they're a mind reader from the never shot opening of STVI, though... So I suppose in my headcanon first contact with the Betazoids was somewhere in the movie era for the original crew.

I think all we definitively know about first contact with the Cardassians comes from TNG's episode "Unification, Part I," which confirms the Federation had contact with the Cardassians well before TNG started:

PICARD: Do you have any idea why he might have disappeared like this?
PERRIN: Captain, as far as I'm concerned, he disappeared a long time ago.
PICARD: Would it be inappropriate to ask what happened between you and Spock?
PERRIN: Not between us. Between Spock and his father. They had argued for years. That was family. But when the debates over the Cardassian War began, he attacked Sarek's position publicly. He showed no loyalty to his father.
PICARD: I was not aware that Sarek was offended by Spock's opposition.
PERRIN: I was offended. I made sure Spock knew it. I'm very protective of my husband. I do not apologize for it.​

As any debates would presumably occur sometime around the start of the Cardassian War, it would be around 2347. (The start of the war would be in 2347 because of Chief O'Brien's backstory at Setlik III.) So Sarek married Perrin sometime before 2347. I go into more detail about this in the 24th Century portion of my Star Trek Timeline for those who might be interested.

Unfortunately, in DS9, presumably to justify the rapid travel times between DS9/Earth/Cardassia/Feringar, both homeworlds got moved considerably closer to Earth, so it makes a later discovery harder to justify. It's probably more egregious for the Ferengi, as Feringar was probably way too close to Earth to justify not knowing what Ferengi even looked like until the 2360s.

Good point! You're probably right.

 

[Shawnster]

I think all we definitively know about first contact with the Cardassians comes from TNG's episode "Unification, Part I," which confirms the Federation had contact with the Cardassians well before TNG started

We also know this

DS9 "Destiny"

DAX: I prefer the serialist poets from the First Republic, like Iloja of Prim. He's easily my favourite Cardassian writer.
ULANI: It is so rare to meet a non-Cardassian who appreciates our literature.
DAX: I took an interest because I had the chance to meet Iloja.
GILORA: You knew him?
DAX: One of my previous hosts, Tobin, met him when he was in exile on Vulcan. As I recall, he had quite a temper.
ULANI: Really?

Tobin lived in the (late?) 22nd century. So Cardassians were known in the TOS era

 

[Golbolco]

I've been under the assumption that the First Cardassian Republic was off-screen to the "western" side of the map, a Federation contact and probable ally. There's a lot of reasons why a republican state still wouldn't have joined the UFP in the 23rd or even 24th century, but anything I could say about that would only be speculative. The Watsonian reason for why Cardassians never appear in TOS is that the Enterprise was mostly on the "eastern" side of the map exploring near Romulan and Klingon territory.

 

[Dukhat]

There would never have been a bad-guy alien race as well-developed as the Cardassians in TOS. The Romulans were the most well-developed, and they were only in two episodes.

 

[Shawnster]

There would never have been a bad-guy alien race as well-developed as the Cardassians in TOS. The Romulans were the most well-developed, and they were only in two episodes.

Three, if you count the ships in "The Deadly Years"

 

[fireproof78]

Three, if you count the ships in "The Deadly Years"

I do.

 

[Dukhat]

Showing stock footage of a Bird of Prey flying around is not really Romulan character development.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

We also know this

DS9 "Destiny"

DAX: I prefer the serialist poets from the First Republic, like Iloja of Prim. He's easily my favourite Cardassian writer.
ULANI: It is so rare to meet a non-Cardassian who appreciates our literature.
DAX: I took an interest because I had the chance to meet Iloja.
GILORA: You knew him?
DAX: One of my previous hosts, Tobin, met him when he was in exile on Vulcan. As I recall, he had quite a temper.
ULANI: Really?

Tobin lived in the (late?) 22nd century. So Cardassians were known in the TOS era

Thanks! I'd missed this reference when I was putting together my Star Trek Timeline. Adding it in now...

It looks like Tobin's placement is a bit confusing, though. He was the second Dax host, and according to Memory Alpha, the DS9 episode "Equilibrium" (or perhaps "Rejoined") states that Lela Dax, the first Dax host, died at the age of 114. That would push his era into the 23rd Century, I believe.

 

[Shawnster]

It looks like Tobin's placement is a bit confusing, though. He was the second Dax host, and according to Memory Alpha, the DS9 episode "Equilibrium" (or perhaps "Rejoined") states that Lela Dax, the first Dax host, died at the age of 114. That would push his era into the 23rd Century, I believe.

It was a tumultuous time for Dax. Curzon, the 6th host, was joined in 2286 (TWOK era) according to Memory Alpha.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I always figured that the Cardassians and Bajorans were known neighbors in the 23rd century, we just didn’t see much of them because they were not major powers like the Federation, Klingons, etc. It’s by the time of TUC or soon after that fascism had taken over in Cardassia with the military’s power play, soon conquering Bajor.

I always thought it would be interesting to see the Cardassians in the 2260s. Pike could come visit them for a trade agreement, notices that the once flourishing civilization was starting to experience planet wide poverty. There’s a good story to be told of a once peaceful planet turning to fascism, but that probably couldn’t be covered in one episode so that might not work for SNW.

 

[JoseNoodles]

I always figured that the Cardassians and Bajorans were known neighbors in the 23rd century, we just didn’t see much of them because they were not major powers like the Federation, Klingons, etc. It’s by the time of TUC or soon after that fascism had taken over in Cardassia with the military’s power play, soon conquering Bajor.

I always thought it would be interesting to see the Cardassians in the 2260s. Pike could come visit them for a trade agreement, notices that the once flourishing civilization was starting to experience planet wide poverty. There’s a good story to be told of a once peaceful planet turning to fascism, but that probably couldn’t be covered in one episode so that might not work for SNW.

I seem to recall on Strange New Worlds, it's mentioned on a display that Pike received a commendation from them.

 

[Herbert]

I never understood this need in Star Trek to take races created for later series to be retconned into the continuity. Why can't some of these cultures simply be cultures that were not yet encountered in the TOS time? Then again I abhor retconning.

 

[Tenacity]

DAX: One of my previous hosts, Tobin, met him when he was in exile on Vulcan.

Was Iloja of Prim exiled on Vulcan, or was Tobin the one exiled?

 

[somebuddyX]

They were guys spray painted grey and had cutlery glued to their heads. Their ship were yellow boxes with a red light at the front. They were religious and the Bajorans were authoritarian but for some reason that got switched in the TNG-era. As I recall they only showed up once but then the novels written by JC Fakeman really expanded on their culture and history, which of course they threw out when they were reintroduced in Season 4 of TNG.

 

[Dukhat]

I never understood this need in Star Trek to take races created for later series to be retconned into the continuity. Why can't some of these cultures simply be cultures that were not yet encountered in the TOS time? Then again I abhor retconning.

Pretty much this. It annoys me as well when they do that. But that's what happens when you make prequels.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Was Iloja of Prim exiled on Vulcan, or was Tobin the one exiled?

It was Iloja.

 

[Albertese]

I don't think it would be a retcon, as DS9 establishes lots of interactions with Cardassians and UFP folks in the 23rd Century period. Having them in SNW would be a welcome cameo IMHO.

--Alex

 

[Dukhat]

I don't think it would be a retcon, as DS9 establishes lots of interactions with Cardassians and UFP folks in the 23rd Century period.

It did? I don’t remember that.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

It’s been established in dialogue that Cardassians, Trills, and Bajorans were known neighbors in the 23rd century. Just because we didn’t see them until TNG doesn’t mean they were never around in TOS. There are so many species out there.