Cardassian Wars

[Bry_Sinclair]

I was just wondering if there had been established exactly when the Cardassian War(s) were? Going by what I remember from on screen, no dates were ever set though it was hinted to be back in the 2340s or 2350s.

Just curious, as an idea has struck me for a fanfic and I'm thinking it would be a good setting for the piece.

Cheers.

 

[T'Girl]

An area of space separating the federation and the Cardassian union was under dispute for more than twenty years prior to Journey's End, and Picard once told a story of running from the Cardassians while Captain of the Stargazer.

 

[Timo]

The two solid dates we have are from TNG "The Wounded" and DS9 "Tribunal".

The former episode describes an incident in what amounts to 2347 that takes place on Setlik III and seems to precede the war, as Cardassians later apologize for this attack performed by a "militia". But as said, it also mentions Picard fleeing the Cardassians in what amounts to 2354, after his offering for peace or truce was rejected.

The latter episode in turn mentions another fight at Setlik III in which O'Brien's pal Boone got captured; his jail time and other clues establish this second fight as having taken place in 2362. "Empok Nor" later affirms that the second fight was a full-blown war with regimentfuls of infantry clashing on that planet.

So the war would appear to have been hotly going on between 2354 and 3262, but not yet in 2347, and no longer in 2367 when the main events of "The Wounded" take place - but the actual peace treaty would not be signed until the details were worked out in 2369 for "Journey's End".

Perhaps noteworthy is that "The Wounded" describes O'Brien's involvement in the Cardassian nastiness as "the border wars", plural. It may be that there was one war with Cardassians, another with Talarians, and so forth. But possibly the Cardassian part of the border unrest was also a collection of numerous separate conflicts rather than one solid war of conventional scale? Picard's peace offering from 2354 may have marked the end of one "round", followed by a lull and then by the "round" that involved O'Brien being triumphant at Setlik III in 2362.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Drago-Kazov]

There was even a Stargazer book about it if i recall.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^There was a Stargazer novel which features Cardassians (Enabran Tain, in fact) but I don't think it was related to the war in any significant way.

 

[Anwar]

So the war would appear to have been hotly going on between 2354 and 3262

That's one long war...

 

[Timo]

I did suggest it might not be a continuous one. Perhaps there's a big break between 2362 and 3262...

There was a Stargazer novel which features Cardassians (Enabran Tain, in fact) but I don't think it was related to the war in any significant way.

Which might be a good choice by the writer, as Picard did not appear all that familiar with the conflict.

Also, the Cardassians and the Ferengi seemed like old pals, or at least Quark's folks were a feature of the station way back in the occupation days. Picard's relative ignorance of Ferengi or Bajoran cultures might suggest the consummate explorer and curiosity-driven renaissance man never spent any significant time in the direction of Cardassia.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[commanderkai]

I did suggest it might not be a continuous one. Perhaps there's a big break between 2362 and 3262...

Check the years again...

I don't think the war went for 9 centuries.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

So the war would appear to have been hotly going on between 2354 and 3262

That's one long war...

My bet is that the whole thing was like the strange war in the West before the invasion of France in 1940. Maybe the O'briens original ship was loaned to a foreign government to assist them or somethingth that's why they saw so much action.

 

[Timo]

I don't think the war went for 9 centuries.

What, you think the Cardassians would give up?

Maybe the O'briens original ship was loaned to a foreign government to assist them or somethingth that's why they saw so much action.

It's typical for Starfleet vessels to have a lot of combat outside declared wars, at least according to Star Trek the TV show and most of its spinoffs. And it's not as if O'Brien or his ship saw particularly much action; the fact that O'Brien would have been at Setlik III twice might be coincidence, but it's also nicely explained by the skipper of the Rutledge having a personal interest in the fate of the colony.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Ok so i remembered it wrong, thanks for correcting me. They should really do some Ruthledge books.

 

[T'Girl]

Perhaps noteworthy is that "The Wounded" describes O'Brien's involvement in the Cardassian nastiness as "the border wars", plural.

But not all the "Border Wars" would necassarily have been with the Cardassians, just some of them. At some point the area of space that holds the brier patch (Insurrection) changed hands from the Klingons to the federation, this might have also been the result of one of the "Border Wars."

There were also a couple of wars with the Tzenkethi, one of which took pace went Sisko was the first officer of the USS Okinawa, so might have been in the same time period as the other border wars.

The Galen border conflicts were in the late 2350's with the Talarians.

The federation does grow over time, border wars might be one of the ways this happens, a way of aquiring territory from others.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Thanks for all the details, I'm thinking perhaps setting it in 2350. Now I just have to get it written before the end of the month.

 

[The Overlord]

Perhaps noteworthy is that "The Wounded" describes O'Brien's involvement in the Cardassian nastiness as "the border wars", plural.

But not all the "Border Wars" would necassarily have been with the Cardassians, just some of them. At some point the area of space that holds the brier patch (Insurrection) changed hands from the Klingons to the federation, this might have also been the result of one of the "Border Wars."

There were also a couple of wars with the Tzenkethi, one of which took pace went Sisko was the first officer of the USS Okinawa, so might have been in the same time period as the other border wars.

The Galen border conflicts were in the late 2350's with the Talarians.

The federation does grow over time, border wars might be one of the ways this happens, a way of aquiring territory from others.

It seems out of character for the Federation to acquire territory through military means. Perhaps they had settlers on worlds that were close to other powers and these worlds became disputed or perhaps worlds close to these hostile powers joined the Federation and the those hostile powers felt threatened by Federation encroachment.

 

[T'Girl]

It seems out of character for the Federation to acquire territory through military means.

How so? The Federation is definitely expansionistic, and has fought for territory.

 

[Timo]

Has the Federation ever annexed territory through military campaigns, though? The only piece of real estate that was both contested and ultimately in UFP hands seems to have been Archanis, and the "original" Klingon claim to it was always made to sound somewhat dubious.

Remarkably, when the Feds walloped the Cardassians and drove them all the way to Bajor in the old wars being discussed here, they didn't annex the surrounding space. DS9 made it clear that the neighboring systems stayed neutral (even though more sympathetic to the Cardassian than to the UFP cause) and the nearest Starfleet assets were a considerable distance away.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GulGoneCrazy]

We can only speculate, but judging by the information from series it is obviously that both sides had numerous civilian and military losses and there is only few changes that where mentioned. Cardassians lost Minos Korva system and retreated from Bajoran sector plus few other colonies left in UFP space.However by my speculations the Cardassians simply underestimated UFP and tried to attack it while UFP fleet was dealing other threats.I think that UFP-Cardassian war was more like cold war with few big incidents since there is not much information about it.So both sides simply didn't have the much needed resources to start a full scale war.