Cardassian and Jem'Hadar children--behind-the-scenes question

[Nerys Ghemor]

Here's something I've been wondering. While it also made for a dramatic plot device with the Jem'Hadar infant that the younger ones were completely unrecognizable for what species they were, I was wondering if there are regulations that limit what kind of makeup and prosthetics child actors are allowed to wear, whereas of course an adult can get all kinds of extensive makeup jobs to play the most "alien" aliens.

I've definitely noticed in some cases on DS9 where it seemed like on the rare occasions we saw Cardassian children played by child actors, there were very much limits on what they did. The orphaned children in "Cardassians" in the orphanage didn't seem to have neck ridges. However, Rugal did (and the prosthetics seemed in general to be more extensive and detailed), and as expected, my research showed he was played by an adult. Same with Ziyal--even her half-Cardassian features are more pronounced than those children in "Cardassians" (though it's my contention that in later seasons they started downplaying her Cardassian-ness for "sympathy"), and again all three actresses were adults.

Anyone happen to know what the rules are? Does it have something to do with child labor laws (such as it being an issue of time spent on the set due to the extra time for makeup, OR an issue of chemical exposure--and if so, which is it), or is it more of a Screen Actors' Guild rule?

 

[Captain Robau]

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/movie-make-up-artist.htm/printable

I searched for a while and this link was the only thing I really saw. The excerpt is below:


Responsibilities of a Movie Make-up Artist


The responsibilities of a movie make-up artist vary depending on the type of work and level of responsibility that the make-up artist has. Hollywood union regulations, for example, classify movie make-up artists based on the area of the actor's body being made up:

• A make-up artist is allowed to apply cosmetics only from the top of the head to the top of the breastbone, from fingertips to wrists and from toes to ankles.
• A body make-up artist applies cosmetics as required to any other areas of the actor's body. While the regular make-up artist generally works throughout filming, the body make-up artist is hired per day when needed.

So it would appear that if you can locate the actual Hollywood Union Regulations (which I tried to but had no luck), they would have the information in there. To complicate matters, however, I have read that there are several different unions.

In terms of child labor laws, I only saw where they regulated how many hours a day children of a particular age could work - maybe that plus the fact that prosthetics take a while to put on is a reason.

Sorry I couldn't help you more.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Regarding infants, I think there are some pretty strict rules about how long you can have them on set and under stage lights, so I'd imagine their might be some rules about what kind of makeup/prostethics you could put on their bodies. Though I seem to remember in the episode with the pagh-wraith cult where Dukat fathered another half-Bajoran kid, the baby was made up pretty heavily, so who knows.

 

[Vurok]

Yeah, probably due to time restrictions.

Though there was a Suliban child in Enterprise - must have taken a while to look like that, it doesn't look like a mask.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That MIGHT have been done on the computer, too...no way to be sure with ENT since computerized effects were so much cheaper by then than they were on DS9.

But I don't know that. Are there any experts on makeup who WOULD know?

DS9Gal--That wasn't a real baby...it was an animatronic doll and it freaked the hell out of everybody on the set, Marc Alaimo included! It was like the Cardassian Chucky!!!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

LOL Cardassian Chucky!

 

[DevilEyes]

That MIGHT have been done on the computer, too...no way to be sure with ENT since computerized effects were so much cheaper by then than they were on DS9.

But I don't know that. Are there any experts on makeup who WOULD know?

DS9Gal--That wasn't a real baby...it was an animatronic doll and it freaked the hell out of everybody on the set, Marc Alaimo included! It was like the Cardassian Chucky!!!

Do you have a quote? Sounds like quite a story!

 

[Finn]

I smell a fanfic. A Cardassian Chucky left over from the occupation, left behind by one of the Cardassians, trapped in the reactors, until Miles opens a hatch....

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That MIGHT have been done on the computer, too...no way to be sure with ENT since computerized effects were so much cheaper by then than they were on DS9.

But I don't know that. Are there any experts on makeup who WOULD know?

DS9Gal--That wasn't a real baby...it was an animatronic doll and it freaked the hell out of everybody on the set, Marc Alaimo included! It was like the Cardassian Chucky!!!

Do you have a quote? Sounds like quite a story!

OK...

It does appear I botched parts of the story (which IS of course why it is important to go back to the original source!), but the story IS damn funny.

Initially, the producers wanted the baby to be fairly visible during Dukat's proclamation of a miracle, but the problem was that there are very strict rules as to how much prosthetic makeup can be used on an infant, and how long an infant can be on-set. As such, the producers decided to go with an animatronic baby, and they hired the people who made the Chucky doll for the 1988 Tom Holland film Child's Play. However, according to B.C. Cameron, "It looked like Chucky with a Bajoran nose. His eyes were blinking and he was really spooky looking." Ira Behr says that the first shoot of the scene where Dukat holds the baby up for the gathered crowd produced the biggest laugh ever seen in dailies; "This animatronic baby was moving its head, and Marc was holding it up for the camera, playing the scene for all it's worth, even though it looked ludicrous. It looked as if he were proclaiming to the world, 'Take a look! This is a phony baby! You can get one at Toys "R" Us! Thirty-five dollars and ninety-five cents!' We were howling with laughter and crying in frustration at the same time. The day will live in infamy." Needless to say, the scene was reshot sans animatronic baby. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

 

[Marie1]

And as you mention in re: the Jem'hadar baby, it was just a small appliqué to the forehead. The scene was short, someone was with the baby at all times on the table...

A lot of adult actors complain quite a bit about what goes into makeup, so even if TPTB wanted to, a small child or baby wouldn't tolerate it, I wouldn't think.

 

[exodus]

Regarding infants, I think there are some pretty strict rules about how long you can have them on set and under stage lights, so I'd imagine their might be some rules about what kind of makeup/prostethics you could put on their bodies. Though I seem to remember in the episode with the pagh-wraith cult where Dukat fathered another half-Bajoran kid, the baby was made up pretty heavily, so who knows.

Plus, if you think in regards to children.
It takes about 4 or more hours just to apply something like a Klingon forehead on an adult. Anyone with kids knows, children don't sit still for more than 5 sec.(ever take a child to get a haircut? ) So you'd have to apply what little you can to an infant before they become fussy.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

LOL, funny story about the animatronic baby. It really was the chucky doll, creepy!

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Yeah, I at least remembered SOMETHING correctly!