Hello, I am a great fan of Star Trek - The Next Generation and The Original series, (well except for the last 2 seasons of TNG and some of the last season of TOS), and I have heard strange claims from someone saying they don't like most of TOS/TNG because of "The captain does not take responsibility for his actions", meaning they claim that "in the end of most episodes when the crew had encountered other civilizations, and interfered, the captain/crew may have solve some things but after that, they "let that interfered civilization cope on it's own, sometimes they rely on Starfleet to fix everything for them after they leave". In short words, they claimed "Captain Picard/Kirk is no hero". In my own eyes, I can see no such flaw at all. The captains of TOS/TNG did all they could, and after all, they have directives to follow and if they did "more" to "Solve issues that their encounter caused", they would probably end up in court martial. If there are inconsistency here, it may be because of the episodes had to be somewhat short. They had their 45 minutes long episodes, sometimes 90. So I think one has to use his own imagination, I usually ask myself, what happened after that episode ended? But how should I response to a Star Trek fan who has such a, to me, strange reason not to like a series? By the way I am a big lover of science fiction books, I am used to them a lot, I seek lots of philosophy in science fiction, and speculations on the unknown. I am none of those fans who prefer action, war and big conflicts.
Captains and responsibility?
- Thread starter TrekkieRiker
- Start date
Ignore them
Remind them of the principle of IDIC.
In what way would that help them to realize this? And to use imagination? I would have to tell them in what context I should mention the IDIC.
Unfortunately this is a dear friend. I cannot ignore such a person. But can you please tell me about an episode where it is easy to see how Captain Picard really shows how he cared for a civilization he helped? To me, it was most of the episodes but if you know some episode that, to you, shows this explicitely obvious.
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In a polite and respectful way remind them that being a fan doesn't mean you have to like everything, some shows/episodes/characters/actors will resonate more with you than others. It would be like saying that every Trekkie/er is watching and loving STD.
Laws are intended to apply to MOST situations. There can be exceptions... and that's why we have judges to assess legal situations.
Kirk and Picard were responsible most of the time. No captain is 100%. And sometimes that's by choice when some other priority forces a change in concern.
You also have to understand CONTEXT to every decision. Sure, you can go back and change your mind about a decision. Didn't Picard reflect back on his choice not to introduce a virus to the Borg collective? At the time it seemed sensible to protect Hugh's rights to live. But at what price? While that inquiry he faced in the Drumhead episode was a witch hunt, it did cause Picard to question his actions and think maybe he didn't do the right thing. He was right about that. Hugh would've been a sacrifice. The needs of the many... SOMETIMES the needs of the one outweighs the needs of a few, as long as they're all in agreement. Hugh should've been a sacrifice. With the Borg gone, billions of lives would've been spared destruction or assimilation.
Bottom line -- they were both valuable captains to Starfleet who were exceptional in their abilities.
Kirk and Picard were responsible most of the time. No captain is 100%. And sometimes that's by choice when some other priority forces a change in concern.
You also have to understand CONTEXT to every decision. Sure, you can go back and change your mind about a decision. Didn't Picard reflect back on his choice not to introduce a virus to the Borg collective? At the time it seemed sensible to protect Hugh's rights to live. But at what price? While that inquiry he faced in the Drumhead episode was a witch hunt, it did cause Picard to question his actions and think maybe he didn't do the right thing. He was right about that. Hugh would've been a sacrifice. The needs of the many... SOMETIMES the needs of the one outweighs the needs of a few, as long as they're all in agreement. Hugh should've been a sacrifice. With the Borg gone, billions of lives would've been spared destruction or assimilation.
Bottom line -- they were both valuable captains to Starfleet who were exceptional in their abilities.
Change the subject.
How about those Mets?
I just mean, that's how he should respond when confronting someone with a rock solid opinion on something he disagrees with or makes him uncomfortable. It's helped me out these last couple of years.
It's better than ignoring them or trying to come up with "evidence" to make them change their opinion.
Well as for changing subjects, he loves DS9 above all, and as DS9 comes second on my favorite shows list, (or third, hard to decide sometimes as TOS was great too, or the story of most TOS was great, but with it being filmed in trick-filming's childhood, it's not all that favorable) but DS9 definitely is among my favorites so we can always talk about that. None of us are actually very big fans of Voy but we both like it too ofcourse. But I would like him to know why I like TNG the way I do.
Politely remind your friend that it's just a show, and you two will just agree to disagree.
Well you are right, And I will say it in a polite way.
Remind them Star Trek is a body of fiction just like Looney tunes cartoons.
It sounds like you're looking for a counter argument. The person said "in the end of most episodes." It's really more like "In the end of a few episodes." And it's more so TOS that is known for this. Ask them for examples. Provide equivalent examples from their pet series.
I can think of a few TOS episodes where this happens.
1. Space Seed- Kirk leaves Khan and his Supermen, and even one of his officers, on an uninhabited planet, apparently to never check up on them again. Whoops.
2. Return of the Archons- Kirk frees a whole planet from Landru...then leaves them to figure out how to survive on their own, using their minds for the first time in 6,000 years. Good luck!
3. The Apple- <-- Probably the biggest example. Kirk frees the natives from Serving Vaal, brings death(ending their immortality), sex, and conflict, tells them "you're going to like it...A LOT!" and leaves.
4. A Private Little War- Kirk initiates an arms race, providing weapons and training. Things escalate. Kirk gives them more weapons, then leaves. "I have to leave now. I left you a crate full of revenge rifles. Get some!!"
There are other, smaller examples, but these a probably the main ones.
Counter examples:
1. A Taste of Armageddon. Kirk brings the threat of War, to scare a society into real peace. The Federation continues to work with the natives after Kirk leaves. Ambassador A-Hole turned out to be not such a bad guy after all.
2. This side of Paradise. Kirk takes the colonists with him.
3. A Piece of the action. Kirk and/or the Federation will continue to check up on the planet.
Are there examples from TNG? I can't think of any(Maybe Suddenly Human?). But if there are, I can almost guarantee there are similar examples from DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise.
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Kirk may leave but Lindstrom and a contingency of sociologists stay behind to nurture the culture back to a free society.
Thank you. Any examples of this in Deep Space Nine please?
In TNG's "The Hunted", Picard abandoned the government of Angosia while they were at gunpoint of the super soldiers.
Picard took no responsibility for the situation, even though the leader of the super soldiers was in the Enterprise's custody when he escaped. Picard gave his typical grandiose speech at the end. This time he used his speechifying to wipe his hands clean of any responsibility and to place complete blame on the government.
Picard took no responsibility for the situation, even though the leader of the super soldiers was in the Enterprise's custody when he escaped. Picard gave his typical grandiose speech at the end. This time he used his speechifying to wipe his hands clean of any responsibility and to place complete blame on the government.
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Ah, scratch one.
Now that someone mentioned one from TNG, I've thought of one from DS9. I don't remember the episode title, so I'll sum it up in two words: Kai Opaka.
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