Apparently, that movie would've ticked off every religion because the robot thing would've assumed every significant religious figure, finally becoming Jesus...
Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, and JFK? (Roddenberry's movie)
- Thread starter TiberiusK
- Start date
I still don't understand how JFK living would have led to Klingon domination of the universe. Was he, like Edith Keller, far to naive to think about peace in 1963? Seriously?
I can understand how pacifism could have been dangerous in 1938, but 1963?
It sounds like GR was bashing all the peaceniks of his generation as wanting either the Nazis or the Commis to take over the world. However noble their ideas might be, they are too ahead of their time, according to the logic of City and this idea.
The more that I read about the man, the more of a hawk he seems to me.
I can understand how pacifism could have been dangerous in 1938, but 1963?
It sounds like GR was bashing all the peaceniks of his generation as wanting either the Nazis or the Commis to take over the world. However noble their ideas might be, they are too ahead of their time, according to the logic of City and this idea.
The more that I read about the man, the more of a hawk he seems to me.
You're making a lot of assumptions about a script treatment you've never read, aren't you? The JKF scene was one brief event in a series of changes the Klingons had caused to Earth history by using the Guardian. But it was the one the media latched onto.
Why did Roddenberry have such a hardon for this idea?
Number6 said:
SeamusShameless said:
Does anyone remember the "Planet of the Titans" premise, where Kirk's been presumed dead for ten years and Spock is in command of the Enterprise? I thought that aspect of it would have been interesting, but the part about Kirk being on a planet inhabited by giant people was kind of dumb.
That would have been a great idea if it involved Mayans somehow.
Because while I admire a lot about JFK I'm just sick of movies and shows doing stuff about him.
That is a fair point, but it wasn't only the "media" that latched onto it. Most insiders who've read the script focus on that aspect as well. What other specific changes did the Klingons make? And how, exactly did keeping JFK alive lead to Klingon triumphs?
It may be premature to judge this script based on what we know without having read it, but it also seems much more premature to me to give it the benefit of the doubt based on a false hope that Roddenberry could write a good script from a terribly hokey premise.
The Klingons finally discover the Guardian of Forever planet and use the device to alter events of Earth's timeline - so that Earth won't ever join the United Federation of Planets. What's so hokey about that?
This "hokey premise" worked pretty well for the Borg story in "First Contact" - as they change history to rid themselves of Earthlings; for Annorax in "The Year of Hell" two-parter in VOY; and for the Klingons worrying about the use of the Guardian in the recent novel trilogy, "Crucible".
Interesting, but I'm still confused as to how the Klingons change the timeline. What does JFK's life have to do with the Fed? It's just bizarre to me. The FC plot seems much more logical: assimilate humanity before they can resist assimilation. But, this GR plot doesn't have that type of straight forward logic. It's more along the lines of City's plot: if pacifism grows, then the Nazis will take over the world, leading to very, very bad things. So, my question is, how does JFK represent a threat?
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
...even though Silverberg also recycled the plot from his 1969 juvenile LitSF novel, Across a Billion Years (eReader), right down to the neurotic alien cyborg Pilazinool of Shilamak who goes to pieces - literally - whenever it gets upset.
TGT
I imagine Gene was trying to go down a 'butterfly flaps its wings in Times Square' premise where one change, apparently insignificant, spirals bigger and bigger changes which either destroy Earth (another one of Star Trek's ever usefully vague nuclear wars) or at least prevent it founding the Federation. How the Klingons would know precisely what changes to make, however, i haven't the foggiest.
Oh my Gawd . . . they killed Kennedy!
You bastards!
You bastards!
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
I suspect it was more a question of their disinterest in/contempt for the source material than a lack of time, considering that both Ellison and Silverberg were two of the most prolific LitSF&F heavyweights in the business during the 1960s and 1970s.
TGT
I wrote this fanfic back in 1976, only the Klingons tried to stop the launch of the Space Shuttle Enterprise and were thwarted by our heroes with assistance from Gary Seven. It featured the Enterprise crew ordering fast food at McDonalds, Sulu flying a Cessna and a chase through a passenger train. Nothing hokey about that...
^Was disco dead by then? I could see Spock in a discotech...
I remember hearing about this, but I never realized that the story got to a sixty page outline. Interesting.
I would have liked to read it. If nothing more than a "what could have been." I've always been interested in those lost episode things. Although, to be honest, I'm more interested in the "Planet of Titans" than this one.
I would have liked to read it. If nothing more than a "what could have been." I've always been interested in those lost episode things. Although, to be honest, I'm more interested in the "Planet of Titans" than this one.
Umm, planet of the cow people... Does this have something to do with the story that was used by Dillard in the first "Lost Years" book?
Messing with JFK would have some pretty obvious consequences to Earth history. After all, the guy was in charge of half of Earth's space program at a key moment - had he not provided the ridiculously high piles of dough to be burned at Pad 39A, the impact would have been quite comparable to Cochrane's disrupted flight in ST:FC. And he was in charge of half of Earth's nuclear arsenal, too. Why meddle with any lesser person?
Of course, Barbara Hambly already did the schtick, and much better, in her Ishmael.
Timo Saloniemi
Messing with JFK would have some pretty obvious consequences to Earth history. After all, the guy was in charge of half of Earth's space program at a key moment - had he not provided the ridiculously high piles of dough to be burned at Pad 39A, the impact would have been quite comparable to Cochrane's disrupted flight in ST:FC. And he was in charge of half of Earth's nuclear arsenal, too. Why meddle with any lesser person?
Of course, Barbara Hambly already did the schtick, and much better, in her Ishmael.
Timo Saloniemi
