Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s

[Gov Kodos]

The only time Kirk blatantly disobeyed authority was in Amok Time.

Unless, of course, you count his somewhat "flexible" approach to the Prime Directive . . .

Talk like that will upset the whole percentage.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm sure it did. The Maverick brothers and Sgt Bilko come to mind. And of course many of these vets wouldn't be in the position to create TV productions (rather than just write for them) until the early Sixties.

Could be, I'm playing devil's advocate not necessarily saying you're wrong. I have never heard this WWII argument for this before. I have heard some of the first biker gangs were formed by vets dealing with having difficulty reintegrating back into society.

The hard part is since most people in the 60s had lived through the 40s to separate what is what.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm sure it did. The Maverick brothers and Sgt Bilko come to mind. And of course many of these vets wouldn't be in the position to create TV productions (rather than just write for them) until the early Sixties.

Could be, I'm playing devil's advocate not necessarily saying you're wrong. I have never heard this WWII argument for this before. I have heard some of the first biker gangs were formed by vets dealing with having difficulty reintegrating back into society.

The hard part is since most people in the 60s had lived through the 40s to separate what is what.

True, but I'm talking about guys of Gene's generation, who were in their 40s by the time the Sixties rolled around. The first decade of my life took place in the Sixties, but that experience is different than someone who was in their teens or twenties in the same decade. OTOH, some of the "leaders" in the counter culture were guys of Gene's generation like Timothy Leary.

I think Kirk's attitude towards bureaucrats and other authority figures comes the experience guys of Gene's generation dealing with the bureaucracy of the Armed Forces when they served. Joseph Heller's Catch-22 comes to mind.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I'm not sure the zeitgeist had that much to do with it. Youth has been rebelling against authority since before the time of Socrates.

True. Where the '60s zeitgeist intrudes most obviously is in "The Way to Eden," and Kirk is on the side of the establishment in that one. Also, he rejected the drug culture in "This Side of Paradise." He was right both times if you ask me.

I think Kirk was in a moderate position in The Way to Eden, he was in authority, but he didn't seem to want to be oppressive. Chekov was the super rigid authority guy in attitudes. Scotty was almost but he didn't have as many lines.

And I agree, I think Kirk was right both times.

The thing is, the hippies of 2268 in 'The Way To Eden' were full of shit anyway, and would have been rejected by the real hippies of the 1960's that they were based on. Why do I say this?

Well, I say this because the hippies were rebelling against things that were really bad in the 1960's-the Vietnam War and the Cold War being the primary things (as well as the military industrial complex of the USA, and other societal ills.) The Federation and the United Earth Republic isn't anything like the USA of the 1960's, and the conflict with the Klingons and the Romulans isn't anything like the conflict with the USSR and the PRC on Earth in the 1960's, either (the Soviets never wanted to conquer anybody world-wide, just make sure that their borders were secure against invasion; Stalin for one trembled at the thought of ever picking a fight with the USA and the other NATO nations, unlike the Romulans and the Klingons.) To a hippie of the 1960's the Federation and the future Earth would be a paradise, enough for said hippie to be dismissive of Severin and his group. In fact, in the original draft of the episode (named 'Joanna') Severin and Co. can't even fend for themselves properly on Eden until Kirk shows them how to do so. Kirk being a moderate? More like Severin was full of it.

 

[Marsden]

I always thought hippies were about laying around, getting high and having their parents pay for it all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I always thought hippies were about laying around, getting high and having their parents pay for it all.

No, that's just teenagers. Hippies are something else.

 

[Forbin]

I always thought hippies were about laying around, getting high and having their parents pay for it all.

No, that's just teenagers. Hippies are something else.

Yes, hippies also wanted free love, no obligations, communal living and rock and roll.