Captain Jellico: Totally Awesome, or Lame?

[Cyke101]

Which is odd considering Picard's portrayal strikes me as more Liberal and Jelico's more Conservative.

Like I mentioned earlier, command style and attitudes don't necessarily reflect political perspectives. After all, we do have Jellico-style commanders in the Armed Forces who are pretty liberal (like those against DODT), and Obama-appointed diplomats who are conservative (wanting more of a hardline with other countries). They might not be the average for their respective sides, but they exist.

And this is just semantics, but I feel like Picard's conservative in personality only, and politically liberal in most other things. And even then, in the future, the lines of what define a liberal vs. a conservative could change like it often does in real history. Yesterday's Lincoln is today's whatever

 

[Trekker4747]

Which is odd considering Picard's portrayal strikes me as more Liberal and Jelico's more Conservative.

Like I mentioned earlier, command style and attitudes don't necessarily reflect political perspectives. After all, we do have Jellico-style commanders in the Armed Forces who are pretty liberal (like those against DODT), and Obama-appointed diplomats who are conservative (wanting more of a hardline with other countries). They might not be the average for their respective sides, but they exist.

And this is just semantics, but I feel like Picard's conservative in personality only, and politically liberal in most other things. And even then, in the future, the lines of what define a liberal vs. a conservative could change like it often does in real history. Yesterday's Lincoln is today's whatever

True. Lincoln, today, would be a Democrat/Liberal and likely would shake his head at the GOP. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Admiral2]

You and I clearly have a divergence of opinion as to what is meant by the terms peace and peacemaker.

Our only difference is based in methodology. Obviously, how you make peace doesn't matter, or a terrorist leader would never have won the Nobel Peace Prize.

For me, Star Trek at its best, is epitomised by the following quote (and given my reference to the Cuban Crisis, I'm keeping it in the context and ethos that we all know spurred Gene Roddenberry to create TOS in the first place):

What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children-not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women, not merely peace in our time but peace for all time. - John F. Kennedy (June 10, 1963)

Right. And this from a man who's misestimation of Kruschev and the Soviet Union's objectives inspired Kruschev to try to put missiles in Cuba in the first place (thereby necessitating the blockade), who authorized and supported the invasion of Cuba the previous year, who sent the first "advisors" to Vietnam and who authorized the creation of the US Navy SEALs.

Listen, if you're going to keep bringing Kennedy into this, you might want to check out more than a couple of pull quotes. He did a whole lot in his years in office, and not all of them involved sitting around a campfire singing "Cumbaya".

Describing Curtis LeMay as a professional peacemaker within this framework (or ANY framework for that matter) is a travesty - but I think that you already know that, so I won't waste any more time trying to dissuade you from what we both recognise is a ludicrous assertion.

I only paraphrased what he said about himself: "Peace is my profession", a quote that evolved into the motto of his creation, the Strategic Air Command, the job of which was to do what Jellico had to do, which was counter the enemies plans with a show of force, without an actual application of force.

BTW, Mutual Assured Destruction was - as I would also hope that you know - was official USG policy for many, many, years. The American military hierarchy didn't need Jane Fonda and her left wing loonie friends to make that one up - the Joint Chiefs and supporting forces created and implemented it all by themselves.

But libs whip it out every time they're indignant about people not rushing to eliminate nukes on their timetable. It went from policy to leftist talking point.

And if you think that the touchdown was scored by joining Jellico to LeMay at the ethical hip (personally I'm not a fan of Jellico but I wouldn't wish that on anyone) then I'm afraid that you've sadly misunderstood the entire ST concept.

No. I just don't treat the wishful thinking of a pacifist TV show as a way of life.

 

[Cyke101]

Which is odd considering Picard's portrayal strikes me as more Liberal and Jelico's more Conservative.

Like I mentioned earlier, command style and attitudes don't necessarily reflect political perspectives. After all, we do have Jellico-style commanders in the Armed Forces who are pretty liberal (like those against DODT), and Obama-appointed diplomats who are conservative (wanting more of a hardline with other countries). They might not be the average for their respective sides, but they exist.

And this is just semantics, but I feel like Picard's conservative in personality only, and politically liberal in most other things. And even then, in the future, the lines of what define a liberal vs. a conservative could change like it often does in real history. Yesterday's Lincoln is today's whatever

True. Lincoln, today, would be a Democrat/Liberal and likely would shake his head at the GOP. But that's neither here nor there.

But it could be here yet later? Politics is such a dynamic creature

I would think good sci-fi could be about the politics and social implications brought on by the circumstances of the future. And of course, Trek's been pretty good in that realm, too. But that's just my opinion!

 

[Rush Limborg]

True. Lincoln, today, would be a Democrat/Liberal and likely would shake his head at the GOP. But that's neither here nor there.

Even assuming that's true...still, we conservative Republicans are still proud to count Honest Abe as the fist GOP President ever!

But as ye say, that's a li'l irrelevent.

 

[DevilEyes]

Jellico is to Picard as Cain is to Adama

I must have missed the part where Jellico shot and killed his first officer on the bridge, had a POW gang raped, beaten and starved, stripped a civilian fleet of the necessary parts and left them to probably die, ordered the shooting of a bunch of unarmed civilians, conducted one-minute court martials, nearly provoked a civil war with another ship, and showed himself to be an incompetent, borderline-insane gung-ho commander who gets half of his crew killed in an attack on a superior enemy, because he has totally misjudged the situation and walked right into the trap, despite the warnings of the more reasonable first officer... oh that's right, the same first officer who got the bullet in the head for speaking against the insane order, and was subsequently proven right.

 

[JB2005]

^ They had to cut it because of timing issues, it was that or we would have lost the explanation of where the pics in Jellico's ready room came from...personally i feel they made the right choice, otherwise i'd have been all "hey where'd those pictures come from?"

 

[DarthPipes]

I couldn't stand Jellicho when I first saw this two-parter but respected him at the end with the way he resolved the crisis. Watching it a second time, I had even more respect for the way he handled business.

I agree, he came off as too much of a hardass at times for no reason. Another bad bit was when he told Picard to get his stuff out of the ready room. If I were Picard I would have flung that damn book right back into his place and said "Asshole, it's only a temporary command."

Totally agree though that Jellicho should not have had to ask Riker to carry out the mission at the end. Riker's duty is to carry out the mission, a critcally important one to the Federation. It's time to check your ego at the door.

 

[Mojochi]

I couldn't stand Jellicho when I first saw this two-parter but respected him at the end with the way he resolved the crisis. Watching it a second time, I had even more respect for the way he handled business.

I agree, he came off as too much of a hardass at times for no reason. Another bad bit was when he told Picard to get his stuff out of the ready room. If I were Picard I would have flung that damn book right back into his place and said "Asshole, it's only a temporary command."

Totally agree though that Jellicho should not have had to ask Riker to carry out the mission at the end. Riker's duty is to carry out the mission, a critcally important one to the Federation. It's time to check your ego at the door.

Nah, the better way to handle that Picard Jellico exchange would've been for Picard to acknowledge that it was indeed Jellico's ship now, but then follow it with this

"Yeah, but in all likelihood, I'll get her back any time I want her... Captain"

Not really Picard's style though

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'd serve with him. It'd be interesting, if nothing else.

 

[Zak]

Jellico was one of the most real characters I've ever seen on the show. It's easy to miss his many strengths. Even on short notice, he came in with an outstanding knowledge of the Enterprise, its crew, and its capabilities. Yes, he's a micro-manager, but to be fair to Jellico, the Enterprise crew was extremely rigid, insubordinate, and inflexible. They're supposed to be the most professional crew in the fleet, but all they did was resist, resist, resist the direction Jellico was trying to go.

What was he asking for? Everything was motivated with the idea that the Enterprise was likely going to head into combat, possibly war. I felt a lot of mercy towards the man since the crew never seemed to grasp that concept. They're so used to the status quo that they can't help but look at everything their new Captain was asking for with disdain for change.

But what he asking for? A new shift rotation; to keep the crew better rested and more able during their shifts. Better technical efficiency; if they were heading into battle, 15% is a big difference. More professionalism; Troi wearing a standard uniform befitting her rank was a good change... in fact, she took her rank and job much more seriously from then on till the end of the series, (and movies).

Jellico was even willing to suck it up to Riker when he was told that Will was the best man for a particularly dangerous job. You didn't see the regular crew willing to swallow their pride to make amends to Jellico. It takes a much bigger man to do that, especially when he should just be able to ORDER the people under him and expect the job to be done.

Also, it's easy to overlook the man's wisdom and compassion. He was a big picture thinker; rescuing Picard had to come secondary to the mission. But that didn't mean he wouldn't launch a class 5 probe upon hearing that Picard's mission data was over 2 years old, or bartering for his release when he had the upper hand on the Cardassians. Even when he disagreed with someone, (like Troi), he was polite, firm, frank, and chose to treat the person across from him as a professional.

For people who are more comfortable with Starfleet as a military organization, Jellico's strengths and character really shine through. For people who want Starfleet to be more sensitive and status quo, (ie. 'let's explore how we all feel about this' - the Picard way), Jellico looks like a pretty hard man.

But he was smart, dedicated, and talented. He succeeded in getting the better of the Cardassians and stopping a war before it could start, AND was able to rescue Picard after Jean-Luc's mission failed. He was given an opportunity, and he shined. Most of the other Captains on the show can't always say the same. He gets two thumbs up in my book!

 

[Mojochi]

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

You dug up an 8 year old thread??? There's a much newer Jellico Appreciation thread that you should post your comments in.

Thread closed.