Disney Plus on May the 28th.
Spoilers Captain America: Brave New World grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
My 4k disc arrives today.
I had hoped to see this in the cinema but a combination of work and the fact that a friend I often go and see such films with instead went with his wife meant that I didn’t get round to it.
Had the house to myself last night so I watched it on Disney plus. It’s the least good of the 4 CA films but better than one might have expected after the production stories. Mackie and Ford give it their all (elderly Ford is way more watchable than middle aged Ford IMHO; for a decade or so from about the mid-90s he often seemed to phone it in but has been way more engaged for the last 15 years or so). Tim Blake Nelson is always good VFM (am I the only one who kept thinking of Toad from X-Men when he was in the hoodie?) as is Giancarlo Esposito. If anything, a problem with Ford’s casting was that he made Ross a bit too likeable. I know that Sam kept talking about him having changed, but we didn’t actually see much evidence of that. But Harrison is intrinsically likeable.
Most of the criticism I’ve seen here is fair. It definitely wanted to be TWS; I was particularly reminded of this in the scene where Sidewinder attacked Sam’s car (reminded me of the attack on Fury in the earlier film) and the visit to the black site reminded me of them going to find the site where Toby Jones’ disembodied persona was.
I really think they should’ve kept the red hulk secret, or at least withheld his identity. Sure, comic book readers would’ve known that Ross becomes this character and I can see that Harrison Ford hulking out is a good bit of promo for the film. But I think it probably would’ve benefitted the film if one didn’t know for sure what was going on with Ross.
I think also that credibility is stretched a bit by a non-super-powered hero like Sam doing a lot of those stunts. I know that Batman or Iron Man are equally reliant on technology but Batman doesn’t take down jets via his suit, and Iron Man’s armour would presumably protect him more than Sam’s. Yes vibranium, I know, but he at times seemed really out powered by by even some of his human opponents and I was nodding along when he said “I should’ve taken the serum.” And I don’t think we’d expect Batman or even Steve to go toe to toe with the Hulk.
Didn’t expect the Bucky cameo and I also thought that it was just a soundalike voicing Betty. Seeing Liv is always a plus, even if it emphasised the odd omission of Banner (or Tim Roth).
Not as good as Thunderbolts, which I saw on the cinema last week, but at least as good as the underrated The Marvels and better than Eternals or Quantumania. I do hope it’s not the last CA film with Anthony/Sam in the lead.
Had the house to myself last night so I watched it on Disney plus. It’s the least good of the 4 CA films but better than one might have expected after the production stories. Mackie and Ford give it their all (elderly Ford is way more watchable than middle aged Ford IMHO; for a decade or so from about the mid-90s he often seemed to phone it in but has been way more engaged for the last 15 years or so). Tim Blake Nelson is always good VFM (am I the only one who kept thinking of Toad from X-Men when he was in the hoodie?) as is Giancarlo Esposito. If anything, a problem with Ford’s casting was that he made Ross a bit too likeable. I know that Sam kept talking about him having changed, but we didn’t actually see much evidence of that. But Harrison is intrinsically likeable.
Most of the criticism I’ve seen here is fair. It definitely wanted to be TWS; I was particularly reminded of this in the scene where Sidewinder attacked Sam’s car (reminded me of the attack on Fury in the earlier film) and the visit to the black site reminded me of them going to find the site where Toby Jones’ disembodied persona was.
I really think they should’ve kept the red hulk secret, or at least withheld his identity. Sure, comic book readers would’ve known that Ross becomes this character and I can see that Harrison Ford hulking out is a good bit of promo for the film. But I think it probably would’ve benefitted the film if one didn’t know for sure what was going on with Ross.
I think also that credibility is stretched a bit by a non-super-powered hero like Sam doing a lot of those stunts. I know that Batman or Iron Man are equally reliant on technology but Batman doesn’t take down jets via his suit, and Iron Man’s armour would presumably protect him more than Sam’s. Yes vibranium, I know, but he at times seemed really out powered by by even some of his human opponents and I was nodding along when he said “I should’ve taken the serum.” And I don’t think we’d expect Batman or even Steve to go toe to toe with the Hulk.
Didn’t expect the Bucky cameo and I also thought that it was just a soundalike voicing Betty. Seeing Liv is always a plus, even if it emphasised the odd omission of Banner (or Tim Roth).
Not as good as Thunderbolts, which I saw on the cinema last week, but at least as good as the underrated The Marvels and better than Eternals or Quantumania. I do hope it’s not the last CA film with Anthony/Sam in the lead.
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Doh! Typo! Will edit.
Are there?
IDK - Captain America Civil War is more an Avengers film.
I just watched it again on Disney+...and my opinion of the film hasn't improved much. I still maintain that there are a lot of great ideas floating around in the film (the fragility of unpowered superheroes, the adamantium resource race spurred by Celestial Island, The Leader's complex web of revenge involving sleeper agents) but they're all a loose bag of ideas that aren't well executed or even fit well together.
The biggest problem with this film is that there are two different films trying to wrestle for control:
Like I said before, I wanted to love this film because it tried so hard to be another Winter Soldier and I honestly wish it was another political thriller. Unfortunately, it's not.
One big positive I got from my rewatch: I've always been a big fan of Carl Lumbly but I didn't fully appreciate his performance as Isaiah Bradley in this film until this time around. He leaned really hard into a man who clearly spent a very long time in prison and, as a result, is socially awkward, both in conversation and body language. We didn't see much of that in Falcon and the Winter Soldier because all of his scenes happened at his house, but this time around, we see him out in public and he's clearly a fish out of water. That came off very well due to Lumbly's performance. Just a shame that performance wasted on this otherwise flawed film.
Lastly...where the hell is the Marvel Studios: Assembled episode? Deadpool & Wolverine's was released the same day but this time...nothing.
The biggest problem with this film is that there are two different films trying to wrestle for control:
- A long overdue follow-up to The Incredible Hulk with an attempted (but unearned) redemptive arc for Ross running parallel with The Leader's sympathetic revenge plot...that inexplicitly doesn't involve Bruce Banner.
- Sam Wilson's first Captain America film where he faces the fragility of his role as an unpowered superhero, where he is asked to reassemble the Avengers for a man he doesn't respect (but considers it because he respects the position), while also trying to prove Isaiah Bradley's innocence after being brainwashed to assassinate the president.
Like I said before, I wanted to love this film because it tried so hard to be another Winter Soldier and I honestly wish it was another political thriller. Unfortunately, it's not.
One big positive I got from my rewatch: I've always been a big fan of Carl Lumbly but I didn't fully appreciate his performance as Isaiah Bradley in this film until this time around. He leaned really hard into a man who clearly spent a very long time in prison and, as a result, is socially awkward, both in conversation and body language. We didn't see much of that in Falcon and the Winter Soldier because all of his scenes happened at his house, but this time around, we see him out in public and he's clearly a fish out of water. That came off very well due to Lumbly's performance. Just a shame that performance wasted on this otherwise flawed film.
Lastly...where the hell is the Marvel Studios: Assembled episode? Deadpool & Wolverine's was released the same day but this time...nothing.
Everything they filmed was for the original version.
Then I want to watch it even more!Everything they filmed was for the original version.
Excellent argument. The very need for Ross to have a redemptive arc, when the last time he made more than a brief cameo (to introduce and advocate for the Sokovia Accords in Civil War), is weird, considering half our heroes agreed with him at the time! Sure, keeping Sterns illegally locked away for years qualifies a fault that could allow for such an arc, but Sam doesn't learn about that until the story is already well underway.
I saw it in the cinema, and it felt really stitched together, like a bunch of really cool stand alone scenes that didn't really gel as a cohesive movie. I really afterwards that Giancarlo was added in resorts so that kind of explained it. Also, many of the plot beats felt the same from Winter Soldier, but they didn't land the same because there was less buildup from previous movies (although I guess the Falcon and Winter Soldier might suffice).
What I found really confusing was Capt America's official role with the US government. Steve was basically and famous active duty special forces soldier when Winter Soldier started, but the way Sam was portrayed he almost seemed like a publicly known free agent - almost an alternative authority. It didn't seem plausible.
As usual with these movies, I did enjoy the new shooting locations, like rural America.
What I found really confusing was Capt America's official role with the US government. Steve was basically and famous active duty special forces soldier when Winter Soldier started, but the way Sam was portrayed he almost seemed like a publicly known free agent - almost an alternative authority. It didn't seem plausible.
As usual with these movies, I did enjoy the new shooting locations, like rural America.
I too saw this movie last night and I think I actually had a better time with The Marvels then this. There were good things about it and Mackie did great as Captain America but it felt a little disjointed, maybe. The Villain also left a lot to be desired. Granted the Villain left a lot to be desired in The Marvels too but I really liked the chemistry of the three leads. I also thought, thanks to the trailers, that the Red Hulk stuff was a bit anti climactic.
Oh yes, definitely agree with both of you that this was not a great movie. The pacing was off, as mentioned by others it felt like two stories mixed together.
But there were many great little moments, and again as I posted before, Sam Wilson simply IS Captain America. Mackie owned the part and made it his own. Looking forward to more of him as Cap.
Sooo...still no sign of the Assembled episode after nearly three weeks since the film landed on Disney+. Usually it's a week after the Disney+ release, two weeks tops, and yet nothing here. Not that I'm clamoring for the episode here but I'm always curious to see the behind-the-scenes production for any film. I'm particularly curious to see how they would present this messy production in a positive manner and perhaps that's why we haven't gotten it (yet or even ever).
My worry is that this might signal the end of Assembled which I've always enjoyed and I really want to see the episode for Thunderbolts* which looked like nothing but pure fun for the entire cast and crew.
Speaking of which, Rhodey never did seem to get that court martial, probably due to the Blip and all, although he wasn't in uniform during Secret Invasion and was clearly working in the capacity as a civilian, so maybe it did happen but no one ever mentions it.
My worry is that this might signal the end of Assembled which I've always enjoyed and I really want to see the episode for Thunderbolts* which looked like nothing but pure fun for the entire cast and crew.
Agreed overall but I have to point that we did see Ross in Infinity War when he tried to get Rhodey to kowtow to him...and embarrassingly failed.
Speaking of which, Rhodey never did seem to get that court martial, probably due to the Blip and all, although he wasn't in uniform during Secret Invasion and was clearly working in the capacity as a civilian, so maybe it did happen but no one ever mentions it.
Yeah, I noticed that weird dynamic both times I watched the film. I really had hoped someone would comment on it at some point but unfortunately, it never came up. If that issue was ever going to be addressed, it got lost in the reshoot shuffle. Which is a shame considering it is an interesting dynamic, one that they could've easily explored more if the film had been focused more on that side of the story. Instead, it's one of the many things lost due to the film trying to tell two different stories at the same time (as noted in my review).
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A grade of B.
I don't really get some of the detractors and the negative reviews of the movie, but I do see where it feels like more of the same old, same old, just with Sam's Captain and Harrison Ford as Thunderbolt Ross. There's just enough different and exciting about the movie to make it an entertaining ride, but it also doesn't feel fresh nor exciting enough to go wild about the story and execution. What's good is good and gets the job done and what's "meh" is kind of what I've seen a dozen or more times before with a different plot and supporting characters.
It's good and I recommend it for two hours of escapism, but it's not going to land on any Top 10 MCU Films for me, and maybe not even the Top 15.
I don't really get some of the detractors and the negative reviews of the movie, but I do see where it feels like more of the same old, same old, just with Sam's Captain and Harrison Ford as Thunderbolt Ross. There's just enough different and exciting about the movie to make it an entertaining ride, but it also doesn't feel fresh nor exciting enough to go wild about the story and execution. What's good is good and gets the job done and what's "meh" is kind of what I've seen a dozen or more times before with a different plot and supporting characters.
It's good and I recommend it for two hours of escapism, but it's not going to land on any Top 10 MCU Films for me, and maybe not even the Top 15.