I say give the show a thirty-year rest. Most of the TOS fans that advocated Trek's resurrection will be gone by then, and there wil be two generations or so that would have never seen Trek in production.
CANCELLED
- Thread starter Mooch
- Start date
- Status
They are not - but at the same time it jars a viewer if he or she knows (because others have done the research and pointed out) that things don' fit and half truths are being told.
Fine detail I can accept as simply being the nature of TV - and if it doesn't jar in a big way then there are no problems.
It is the biggies - and the real world biggies - that get me. Berman - I am paraphrasing what he said when Ent premiered -: "we are fed up of the 24C, we have told all the stories we can there, we have burnt out on all the 24C races" etc. etc.
Then what does Ent serve up - Ferengi and Borg.
Fair enough they were one offs - and did not cause any great problems - but it just stinks, and it is the principle of the matter.
They created "golden rules" for themselves and then just completely disregarded them and broke them when they got bored with their new toy.
That is not the mark of a series going anywhere or with any real purpose.
I accept the S4 Ent isn't really the same as the one I am describing here - but the damage had already been done - Temporal cold war - nazi space aliens - I'm sorry but it reads like a work of SF staire - something I would expect to see in Spaceballs not in Star Trek.
A bad day for me all in all.
They cancel one of my favourite shows and one of may favourite rock stars is arrested.
I wish they hahd had a break after Voyager or even made Enterprise instead of Voyager.
I hope the final episode is worthy of Trek!
Trek will return stronger than ever.
Till then there’s always the re-runs.
RIP Enterprise
They cancel one of my favourite shows and one of may favourite rock stars is arrested.
I wish they hahd had a break after Voyager or even made Enterprise instead of Voyager.
I hope the final episode is worthy of Trek!
Trek will return stronger than ever.
Till then there’s always the re-runs.
RIP Enterprise
It feels like you're trying to make two points here.
As to the first, I'm not one to necessarily argue with the "big" mistakes. I just feel that Enterprise had them few and far between, and your examples of the Borg and Ferengi are good examples of this.
But to the second, this is what I was trying to get at. The quality of the stories (as your description of the Space Nazis and etc) were just different ways to approach new stories, and didn't go against these canonical terms, so to speak.
It's one thing to say that Enterprise has had shitty story telling -- this is true with all the Trek series. It's another to purport that Enterprise went down because of it's blatant disregard for canon and the fans just wouldn't take it. I just don't think the latter is the case.
I effectively was - one point slewed into another point.
True - but by setting it as a prequel they boxed themselves into a corner. The letter of the law on what was previously said and seen on-screen may not forbid temporal cold wars etc. - but given the familiarity with the past shown on-screen and the complete lack of words to support what we now watch - it doesn't exactly lend itself to either believability or help in the suspension of disbelief process. Perfect example being the xindi attack on earth - however many millions dead - yet not a word about it (obviously) uttered in around 400 odd hours of trek.
That was always the principle problem of a prequel - and why I never liked the idea - very few creative teams could have pulled it off successfully (certainly not B&B) - but ironically if there had been a firm and well structured ramp up of romulan war/ founding of fed story over the 7 years then other continuity problems would have been minor and less of a concern. But we didn't have any war or founding, we had random unconnected stories which bore no (or very little) relation to the future tales that have been told. There were plenty of minor nods and name drops - but it was the overall "big picture" stories and arcs that didn't fit in.
Posted by Photoman15:
Posted by jkladis:
ThanksI agree a great deal with that analysis. The idea of decanonisation is something I can't jump on board with, though. I guess I can't wrap my brain around the idea. It proposes too much complexity behind the scenes to repair that which did not work out.
Good closing statement. I could use some sleep, too.
And who's to say what should remain canon and what shouldn't? Me? You? Them? Us?
Both them and us, actually. They are the masters to create it, we are in control of what we want to do with it. It really doesn't go much farther than that, because I consider canon to be an "internal affair" with Trek fans. Canon is not the sole reason why we had annoucement yesterday, so I try not put too much thought into it.
Posted by Stewey:
Posted by firehawk12:
^
I don't see anyone doing anything fresh with Star Trek though. How can you? Short of setting it in the 40th century or something.
If you can hire people who can think out of the box you can. Just using a different premise can take it into new directions, just like DS9 for example.
Right, right, right... Already working on this one... Call it, say, Star Trek: Andromeda... Set it a century after TNG/DS9/V aboard an advanced starship (yet with a small crew--all it needs, since it's heavily-computerized and automated)... Just about each member of the crew is a different species (Human, Vulcan, Klingon, Romulan, Ferengi, Talaxian etc.)... All-new technology ("computer, glass of root beer"--hold your hand out and a glass materializes in it--No More transporter chiefs! And no more Okudagrams!)...and terminology (no EPS crap!)... As an homage of sorts to TOS' 2nd pilot, the pilot for this series begins with this long-range starship successfully penetrating the Barrier...on it's way to the Andromeda galaxy... All aliens encountered there are NON-HUMANOID beings created by CGI, and none of them speak English...
With this setting for hardcore SF stories, we have an all-new take on Trek (much like TNG redefined Trek by taking it into another era), yet despite all the many differences, in its essence it will be Trek, especially as related through the crews' characters... As worlds are explored, we'll also get peeks into the past century of Trek's history (a Romulan on board? How'd that happen? It will be discussed!)...
ENTERPRISE need not be mentioned, either!
I could refute this by claiming the overall "big picture" behind Voyager was "getting home." The overall big picture of TNG was "exploring". If the stories they were telling in the 24th century were bottled up, and the idea of hindsight is too restrictive, then where can they go? Too many people already have a distaste for time travel.
As far as the comment of no mention about the few million dead due to the Xindi arc, well, my answer is that TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY weren't prequel shows. While I do agree the arc was written poorly, I don't think that the show's creators had to go back and watch all 600 odd hours of Trek to know EXACTLY what to write in the prequel. If one cannot remain open about 200 years of history that one doesn't know about, then how could the idea of a prequel have possibly succeeded anyway?
It feels like it's more of a "something inside you to get over" problem than a fundamental flaw in the premise. And all of the above is one of the reasons why I don't agree with continuity arcs like the "Klingon forehead" arc. I just feel that one could assume years of technology advancements could naturally lead to costume advancements, canon or not. No need to nitpick. But if they creatively resolve this, more power to TPTB.
If all of that were the case, then trying to tell the story of something in the past would never be possible. And I feel that's just severely limiting yourself creatively.
Let's expand our minds beyond a book of formulae and open the door to possibility. Then maybe Trek would experience a true revival.
There's an old saying along the lines of: Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the common people. Always been true; probably always will be. That's why Tom Clancy sells better than Harlan Ellison, why TV Guide sells better than Analog, why Titanic sells more DVDs than Forbidden Planet, and why Desperate Housewives has more viewers than Enterprise.Posted by cooleddie74:
It's been almost a full 24 hours since I read the news, and I'm STILL royally cheesed. Argggggggggh!!!!!
ENTERPRISE dies. While abject, pandering crap like reality shows and DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES are hits and people won't shut the F up about them. Boy, I dislike broadcast TV and the networks right now more than I have in a LONNNNNNG time.
G
Guest
Guest
I still can't believe ENT was cancelled... Just when the series was beginning to address relevant issues in the Star Trek universe, such as the Romulan War and the birth of the Federation.
Three years of TCW, Sulibans and Xindis and the show is cancelled exactly when it starts doing what it was always supposed to do, i.e., explain the events that led to TOS, TNG and the other series.
THAT'S NOT LOGICAL.
Three years of TCW, Sulibans and Xindis and the show is cancelled exactly when it starts doing what it was always supposed to do, i.e., explain the events that led to TOS, TNG and the other series.
THAT'S NOT LOGICAL.
Also, problems with the first contact with the Ferengi and the Borg predated Enterprise. Remember the joke Data remembered in Generations about the Ferengi, he said happened in "Encounter at Farpoint." As for the Borg, Q Who was supposedly the first time humans encountered or knew anything about the Borg, but a few episodes later we learn that Starfleet has been monitoring "Borg activity" for more than a year.
You wouldn't be refuting it - you would be proving it. Both premises are so open than anything can be done. They weren't "bottled up" they were as open as you can get.
"exploring" by definition means looking around the next corner - anything can happen, anything can be there - it could be a strange planet - it could be a war - it could be a holodeck.
"getting home" - it was going to take 70 years real time - they had 7 - everyone knew they would get home given that it was the premise - so there were going to be "magic beans" used - so they can deploy the magic beans whenever they like - and use the rest of the time to do whatever they like.
Voyager COULD have been so much richer had it worked with it's premise instead of ignoring it (RM's articles on what was possible give a good read on what VOY should have been), but within 5 episodes it was clear VOY was going to hover about doing exactly what it liked - just about as unrestictive as you can get. Hover about for 6 years 23 episodes and then deploy a few magic beans in the last episode to get you home.
Why make it a prequel at all then? If they want to tell "kewl" xindi stories then they should just have set it in the 28C - come up with a few believable reasons for the current conditions (none of which can contradict what has already been said since it is in the future) - and run on.
If you aren't going to even use the basic REASON behind it actually being a prequel then it might as well not be one.
Not as far as I can see - why set a show at the exact point where the founding of the fed is and then do absolutely nothing about it?
Why not set the show 20 years before? - or 20 years after?
That is probably the bit that gets me more than any other - I don't object to them telling tales set in the past involving races/places that we haven't heard of before - I do object to them setting up the whole series to pivot on a pivotal ST moment - and then completely ignore it.
It is history repeating, voy was the same - they set up a premise and then just get fed up/ignore it and go and do what they feel like doing next. No thought, planning or depth - the direction of ST was run on their whim.
Berman and Braga should take there own advice and do like Trek. Take a break from it. I don't want them making another movie or series. Somone out there in TV land has got to know that those two are out of ideas and are just reusing old and tired concepts. If Paramount ever make another movie or series, PLEASE GIVE IT SOME FRESH NEW BLOOD AND TALENT. Get rid of B&B. I think it's unfair how the series gets cancelled yet they are allowed to stay and mess up another series or movie again.
G
Guest
Guest
Ouch.
Just as I was really starting to get behind the show, it's taken from me. It's the only show on TV I watch. Guess I'm back to strictly DVDs.
I'll miss you, Enterprise. You should have gotten a full seven seasons. I'm sorry the others didn't see that. Thanks to the cast and crew for the memories, and for doing the best they knew how to do.
I know I doubted you in the beginning, Enterprise, but I'll still cherish what time we did have together. Even after UPN cuts you loose, you'll still have a place on my TV and (dare I get this cliche? ah, well... might as well go for the gold ) in my heart.
.....and, in totally tangental news, why'd you have to pick yesterday of all days to announce its cancellation, UPN? Instead of studying for the midterms I had today and correcting that paper also due today, I was glued to my computer and the boards, in a state of shock/depression. For the sake of my grades and my sanity, couldn't you have let me live on in blissful ignorance for another day?*
*(yes, I realize I am the only one to blame for not studying until late into the night, but it makes me feel better to blame UPN anyway)
Just as I was really starting to get behind the show, it's taken from me. It's the only show on TV I watch. Guess I'm back to strictly DVDs.
I'll miss you, Enterprise. You should have gotten a full seven seasons. I'm sorry the others didn't see that. Thanks to the cast and crew for the memories, and for doing the best they knew how to do.
I know I doubted you in the beginning, Enterprise, but I'll still cherish what time we did have together. Even after UPN cuts you loose, you'll still have a place on my TV and (dare I get this cliche? ah, well... might as well go for the gold ) in my heart.
.....and, in totally tangental news, why'd you have to pick yesterday of all days to announce its cancellation, UPN? Instead of studying for the midterms I had today and correcting that paper also due today, I was glued to my computer and the boards, in a state of shock/depression. For the sake of my grades and my sanity, couldn't you have let me live on in blissful ignorance for another day?*
*(yes, I realize I am the only one to blame for not studying until late into the night, but it makes me feel better to blame UPN anyway)
It's horrible. I think the news still hasn't completely gotten through to me, it's unreal. It'll take a few days before I can accept it.
Watching tomorrow's episode will be a weird experience, knowing you're watching one of the last episodes of Trek for some time.
However, I don't believe we've seen the last of Trek. In a few years, Paramount will begin testing the waters for a new Trek show. Until then, I shall enjoy TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and four years of Star Trek: Enterprise on glorious DVD.
It's not over yet.
Watching tomorrow's episode will be a weird experience, knowing you're watching one of the last episodes of Trek for some time.
However, I don't believe we've seen the last of Trek. In a few years, Paramount will begin testing the waters for a new Trek show. Until then, I shall enjoy TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and four years of Star Trek: Enterprise on glorious DVD.
It's not over yet.
Posted by RJDiogenes:
There's an old saying along the lines of: Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the common people. Always been true; probably always will be. That's why Tom Clancy sells better than Harlan Ellison, why TV Guide sells better than Analog, why Titanic sells more DVDs than Forbidden Planet, and why Desperate Housewives has more viewers than Enterprise.Posted by cooleddie74:
It's been almost a full 24 hours since I read the news, and I'm STILL royally cheesed. Argggggggggh!!!!!
ENTERPRISE dies. While abject, pandering crap like reality shows and DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES are hits and people won't shut the F up about them. Boy, I dislike broadcast TV and the networks right now more than I have in a LONNNNNNG time.
However, if people put their little kiddies in front of a Trek show at an early age, shit like Desperate SexLives, The Appendage, and The Amazing Farce would lose their audiences, because the viewers would have reached a greater average intellectual/moral platitude, and would refuse to let their minds rot into piles of grey goo...
Which is why Enterprise got cancelled int the first place.
- Status
