But it was getting better as these last few eps have were the best, exc. OE maybe. Anyway I would not be who I am if I didn't thank Stewey for being classy in his comments above. I, as usual agree with some of what he says and disagree with others. I will end my comments here.
CANCELLED
- Thread starter Mooch
- Start date
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18 years and thats it. 
Bye bye.
Bye bye.
Or they could have called it "Star Trek: Enterprise" from the beginning (no "this is an alternate universe" and "not your father's trek" crap) and delivered S4-quality stories from the beginning.
Then the ratings would have been, at least, better than Voyager.
As Mr. Floppy from 'Unhappily Ever After' said way back in 1996: 'DESTROY UPN!'
Do they actually have anything worthwhile on their schedule now? I can't see America's Next Top Model, Kevin Hill or Veronica Mars becoming long term ratings hits, can you?
By cancelling Enterprise, UPN may have inadvertently signed its own death warrant.
Do they actually have anything worthwhile on their schedule now? I can't see America's Next Top Model, Kevin Hill or Veronica Mars becoming long term ratings hits, can you?
By cancelling Enterprise, UPN may have inadvertently signed its own death warrant.
2 Cents on Enterprise Tech as a problem
As someone who's fairly in to the whole Star Trek continuality scene, IMHO my biggest complaint with Enterprise was the fact of the advanced technology seeing it was set in 2151, 150 years from now and 110 years from the events in "The Cage".
I could live with any plot, any story, but I had the hardest time dealing with the rapid expansion of technology on the show.
Phasers, Photonic Torpedos, Transporters, way to advanced and worse when encountering Klingons their ships look like they just warped in from the 24th century.
In the beginning they had it just about right, regular missles, packeted energy pistols, transporters for cargo only. Later on in the show though the technology rapidly advanced to where it was just Kirk era tech in a differnet package. I was worried that the NX-02 would have shields and tractor beams.
I guess in an upcoming episode Hoshi invents the universal translator.
If you take those advancements and put them in that timeline then it means there was practiaclly no new technology invented in the 110 years between Archer and Kirk only refinement of what had been invented much earlier.
Personally I would made the technology more of hinderence in the show.Make the transporters have a maximum mass they could transport and have the energy requirements be so huge the ship practically has to shut down in order to beam up anything larger then an apple. Have projectile weapons be the main weapons of the crew and ship and in very rare circumstance they breakout the dangerous to use and large energy weapon. Warp engine should have been hit or miss broken more then working. There are many other examples, but that's a sample.
Just my thoughts
As someone who's fairly in to the whole Star Trek continuality scene, IMHO my biggest complaint with Enterprise was the fact of the advanced technology seeing it was set in 2151, 150 years from now and 110 years from the events in "The Cage".
I could live with any plot, any story, but I had the hardest time dealing with the rapid expansion of technology on the show.
Phasers, Photonic Torpedos, Transporters, way to advanced and worse when encountering Klingons their ships look like they just warped in from the 24th century.
In the beginning they had it just about right, regular missles, packeted energy pistols, transporters for cargo only. Later on in the show though the technology rapidly advanced to where it was just Kirk era tech in a differnet package. I was worried that the NX-02 would have shields and tractor beams.
I guess in an upcoming episode Hoshi invents the universal translator.
If you take those advancements and put them in that timeline then it means there was practiaclly no new technology invented in the 110 years between Archer and Kirk only refinement of what had been invented much earlier.
Personally I would made the technology more of hinderence in the show.Make the transporters have a maximum mass they could transport and have the energy requirements be so huge the ship practically has to shut down in order to beam up anything larger then an apple. Have projectile weapons be the main weapons of the crew and ship and in very rare circumstance they breakout the dangerous to use and large energy weapon. Warp engine should have been hit or miss broken more then working. There are many other examples, but that's a sample.
Just my thoughts
Since this is really moving into OT territory, I will have to disagree regarding the Stargates and move on from the topic within this thread. Really, they have become derivative of Trek in general. This is not in defense of ENT because that has never been my raison d'etre when coming out against what had been done to Trek with that show. But pointing out much of the other sci fi currently on the air is by no means showing me anything that I would remotely consider "new" or "innovative", as is oft-insisted upon.
I'm afraid it is nothing more than textbook psychology nonsense - basically Psych 101-type "what if" vignettes strung together in a contrived fashion with contrived circumstances to force a specific behavior, and then subsequently labeled as "drama", with half the characters shown as acting psychotic. The premise of the show, even for the original, was limited, and so too will it be for the remake.
And I will end with that on this subject.
I actually feel the worst about Pip, a fellow poster. She went into labor two days ago, and probably gave birth yesterday. I hope she avoids this site for a week after she gets home.Posted by ZZYFRX:
Posted by Mogh:
Well, I woke up on my birthday morning to receive this oh-so-thoughtful present from Paramount.
Fuck them. And fuck Berman and Braga and the way they let the Trek universe rot over the last few years. Fuck their tits and ass strategy. Fuck their rehashed stories. Fuck their conservative, plodding, formulaic story-telling.
What pisses me off the most is that they put together this show, this show with a talented cast, this show with great potential and great stories, and so badly executed parts of it that it had to go before its time. I'd sooner they'd left it a while and done a proper job from the start. Now I'm furious that they got us hooked on a premise that they have been unable to properly deliver
Ah. The hell with it
Today is my birthday too, Mogh. And to be honest, I'm not upset. No offense to the Enterprise fans, but for me Star Trek has been shit since the end of DS9. The last two series have lacked originality and passion, and thanks to the Killer B's I haven't been excited about Trek in the last five years.
Trek has lived for over 40 years, but it's finally lived out it's usefulness. It's time to let go and enjoy some other shows.
I was waiting for Stewey's post. What suprised me is how much I agree with it.
I enjoy modern Trek. I'm in the minority that likes Voyager. DS9 seems to me to be the high point in Star Trek. TNG, while good, leaves me a little cold.
I used to be an ENT gusher. I watched - and enjoyed it for the most part. Then I started re-watching Voyager and it made me watch ENT with a more critical eye.
ENT to me is all about missed opportunities. It (IMHO) had patchy storytelling and would run from being REALLY good to TERRIBLY bad. It's not UPNs fault that the show was canceled. It was the fault of incredibly poor and inconsistent writing by Berman and Braga. Bringing Manny Coto on was a great idea that should have happened in season 3. By the time he came onboard, it was too late.
I don't think the problems were enough to warrant a "fan" effort to get the show canceled, or the new effort to get the show de-canonized. Those who come in here to gloat are only trying to make themselves feel better off the misery of others. A far more productive effort would be to get B&B away from the Trek franchise and bring in new people.
IMHO, of course.
I enjoy modern Trek. I'm in the minority that likes Voyager. DS9 seems to me to be the high point in Star Trek. TNG, while good, leaves me a little cold.
I used to be an ENT gusher. I watched - and enjoyed it for the most part. Then I started re-watching Voyager and it made me watch ENT with a more critical eye.
ENT to me is all about missed opportunities. It (IMHO) had patchy storytelling and would run from being REALLY good to TERRIBLY bad. It's not UPNs fault that the show was canceled. It was the fault of incredibly poor and inconsistent writing by Berman and Braga. Bringing Manny Coto on was a great idea that should have happened in season 3. By the time he came onboard, it was too late.
I don't think the problems were enough to warrant a "fan" effort to get the show canceled, or the new effort to get the show de-canonized. Those who come in here to gloat are only trying to make themselves feel better off the misery of others. A far more productive effort would be to get B&B away from the Trek franchise and bring in new people.
IMHO, of course.
He DID come on board in season 3. As one of the writers/producers during the Xindi arc, penning eps like ENT "Similitude", ENT "Chosen Realm", and ENT "Harbinger", etc.
Oh, boy
Listen to yourself. How exactly is decanonization going to help? It's a bloody TV SHOW, and decanonization won't erase the bad writing and bad character interaction of the early seasons from the viewer's mind. You think the regular TV viewer CARES if a show is canon or not? All they know is, it sucked early, they won't watch, canon or not. How many of those people do you think will ever NOTICE the show was dropped from canon?
When a new Trek series arrives, they may watch, or they may not -- but "canon" only matters to die-hard fans who wants to analyse bit and make it part of a greater timeline -- NOT to the casual TV viewer who makes the Nielsens. Your argument holds NO water.
.
Re: 2 Cents on Enterprise Tech as a problem
There were a lot of things they could have done with ENT from the beginning but that wasn't what we got. I just try to watch and enjoy the show for what it does have. I am not so self involved to think "Hey, they shouldn't have this or that now, cause it isn't supposed to be for another 50 years". TOS was not a bible, it was a great scifi show almost 40 years ago. I loved it and still do. I have a career outside of writing and entertainment, so I watch tv for one thing enjoyment. No where in the real world does one have the opportunity to have everything they want. I deal with what the cards are I am given.
One last comment re: having a too advanced ship and then nothing majorly developed for a hundred years. In the last 50 years in RL, my lifetime we have seen many wonderful things comeup. People who are younger than I, like my kids take alot for granted. Historically this is not what has happened technologically. Things work in spurts. You GET advances for a few decades then you get very little for hundreds if not thousands of years. Centuries go by between first flintlocks and machine guns, still gunpowder projectile firearms. We will have this occur still, where tech things will slow down eventually, then as new materials and technologies are developed we will surge forward again. I had no problem with the NX-01 except for one thing and I learned to live with it and not let it ruin my Trek fun. WHY? you may ask, it is a good question, the answer is - Trek is supposed to be entertainment, not work, I have enjoyed it for a long time, and I wasn't going to let that change no matter what. Enjoyment is up to you to control, not the beebs, Moonves, etc. YOu have to be a strong person and say what is important and what isn't. To me enjoying TREK is the most important thing, everything else follows. FWIW.
There were a lot of things they could have done with ENT from the beginning but that wasn't what we got. I just try to watch and enjoy the show for what it does have. I am not so self involved to think "Hey, they shouldn't have this or that now, cause it isn't supposed to be for another 50 years". TOS was not a bible, it was a great scifi show almost 40 years ago. I loved it and still do. I have a career outside of writing and entertainment, so I watch tv for one thing enjoyment. No where in the real world does one have the opportunity to have everything they want. I deal with what the cards are I am given.
One last comment re: having a too advanced ship and then nothing majorly developed for a hundred years. In the last 50 years in RL, my lifetime we have seen many wonderful things comeup. People who are younger than I, like my kids take alot for granted. Historically this is not what has happened technologically. Things work in spurts. You GET advances for a few decades then you get very little for hundreds if not thousands of years. Centuries go by between first flintlocks and machine guns, still gunpowder projectile firearms. We will have this occur still, where tech things will slow down eventually, then as new materials and technologies are developed we will surge forward again. I had no problem with the NX-01 except for one thing and I learned to live with it and not let it ruin my Trek fun. WHY? you may ask, it is a good question, the answer is - Trek is supposed to be entertainment, not work, I have enjoyed it for a long time, and I wasn't going to let that change no matter what. Enjoyment is up to you to control, not the beebs, Moonves, etc. YOu have to be a strong person and say what is important and what isn't. To me enjoying TREK is the most important thing, everything else follows. FWIW.
The adjective "grandiloquent" has 2 senses in WordNet.
1. grandiloquent, magniloquent, tall -- (lofty in style; "he engages in so much tall talk, one never really realizes what he is saying")
2. grandiloquent, overblown, pompous, pontifical, portentous -- (puffed up with vanity; "a grandiloquent and boastful manner"; "overblown oratory"; "a pompous speech"; "pseudo-scientific gobbledygook and pontifical hooey"- Newsweek)
Ya kill me Stewster - you still think you are relevant. De-canonise!
Ahab, whales and all that.
G
Guest
Guest
I feel as though i've been kicked in the guts.
Paramount thanks us for our loyalty to them and star trek, theres nice of them.
But what aboutt their loyalty to us?
Today is not a good day to die! Star trek lives forever
Paramount thanks us for our loyalty to them and star trek, theres nice of them.
But what aboutt their loyalty to us?
Today is not a good day to die! Star trek lives forever
I knew it was coming. I had told friends and family that I suspected that this was to be the last season, especially the way the numbers have been. Still, I had hoped I was wrong. The show has inproved so much that I figured UPN might hold on to it for the standard seven seasons. But, it was not to be...and I'm more affected by this loss than I tought I would be. With the other three shows, we knew the end was coming and it was sad but there was a celebration of sorts. Either a movie was coming out, another series was running, or another was due out soon. We don't have that this time and it feels...wrong. It's both that simple and that complex.
Really, the only shows I have ever watched on UPN have been Voyager, Nowhere Man (cool short-lived show), and Enterprise. Nothing else it airs is of any quality or interest to me at all. I tune in to UPN every Friday and again in rerun on Sunday nights and I change the channel immediately afterward each time. CBS has had its share of clinkers and I had hoped that, once Enterprise went into syndication in the Fall and had gotten more exposure, Enterprise would've moved to that network opening it up to a bigger audience. With the new writers and producers, I saw the show heading away from episodes highlighting T&A and moving toward intricate ones about morals and relationships. Instead UPN killed it. They gave it a chance to improve and it did, yet they killed it, though I realize the viewership numbers don't reflect that improvement. Pity.
What's so frustrating to me is that I, like so many others here, saw that it was improving tremendously and I saw its potential to continue to improve. Now we are left with nothing including no plans for anything. No TV show, no films, no made-for-TV movies. Nothing. I never thought the Star Trek franchise could fall so far.
I remember the excitement of waiting for new episodes of TNG, DS9 and VOY. I recall the anticipation for the next film, both TOS and TNG.I lost some of that with ENT not so much because of the show but because of the awful way the network had treated it. I will miss the show dearly and I will buy the DVDs when they come out. And, I will hope that one day soon, we will hear more stories. More about Picard & Riker, Kirk & Spock, Sisko & Worf, Janeway & Paris, and certainly Archer & Trip. I hope it's not a long wait.
What confuses me to no end is how the Star WARS franchise can produce only five movies, with the last two being stinkers, yet it still generates huge interest from the sci-fi fans and the general movie-going audience. Amazing.
R.I.P., Enterprise....
Really, the only shows I have ever watched on UPN have been Voyager, Nowhere Man (cool short-lived show), and Enterprise. Nothing else it airs is of any quality or interest to me at all. I tune in to UPN every Friday and again in rerun on Sunday nights and I change the channel immediately afterward each time. CBS has had its share of clinkers and I had hoped that, once Enterprise went into syndication in the Fall and had gotten more exposure, Enterprise would've moved to that network opening it up to a bigger audience. With the new writers and producers, I saw the show heading away from episodes highlighting T&A and moving toward intricate ones about morals and relationships. Instead UPN killed it. They gave it a chance to improve and it did, yet they killed it, though I realize the viewership numbers don't reflect that improvement. Pity.
What's so frustrating to me is that I, like so many others here, saw that it was improving tremendously and I saw its potential to continue to improve. Now we are left with nothing including no plans for anything. No TV show, no films, no made-for-TV movies. Nothing. I never thought the Star Trek franchise could fall so far.
I remember the excitement of waiting for new episodes of TNG, DS9 and VOY. I recall the anticipation for the next film, both TOS and TNG.I lost some of that with ENT not so much because of the show but because of the awful way the network had treated it. I will miss the show dearly and I will buy the DVDs when they come out. And, I will hope that one day soon, we will hear more stories. More about Picard & Riker, Kirk & Spock, Sisko & Worf, Janeway & Paris, and certainly Archer & Trip. I hope it's not a long wait.
What confuses me to no end is how the Star WARS franchise can produce only five movies, with the last two being stinkers, yet it still generates huge interest from the sci-fi fans and the general movie-going audience. Amazing.
R.I.P., Enterprise....
I gotta say I am somewhat humbled by Stewey's thoughtful post. While I disagree with some points, mainly their alleged 'contempt' for continuity, most of it was well said and frankly... totally true. Even the 'contempt' for continuity, while an exageration, is not totally innacurate regarding the first three seasons, and especially season 3 (even though I found that season to be quality).
Re: 2 Cents on Enterprise Tech as a problem
You know what I don't understand?
How exactly do you think you're gonna carry out "de-canonisation"?
It was written, it happened, it's part of Trek. Everyone can decide for themselves if they want something to be canon. Heck, if you don't like what happened in say... the Best of Both Worlds... or... Broken Bow...then heck, in your own little world... you can decanonise till your ears fall off.
I just think it's silly all these people who run around saying Enterprise should be decanonised cause they're really not saying anything. There's no Bible that says "this has been accepted as the Gospel Trek".
I just laugh to myself whenever I hear this.
You know what I don't understand?
How exactly do you think you're gonna carry out "de-canonisation"?
It was written, it happened, it's part of Trek. Everyone can decide for themselves if they want something to be canon. Heck, if you don't like what happened in say... the Best of Both Worlds... or... Broken Bow...then heck, in your own little world... you can decanonise till your ears fall off.
I just think it's silly all these people who run around saying Enterprise should be decanonised cause they're really not saying anything. There's no Bible that says "this has been accepted as the Gospel Trek".
I just laugh to myself whenever I hear this.
Ahum..Posted by LeandroTLZ:
Oh, boy
Listen to yourself. How exactly is decanonization going to help? It's a bloody TV SHOW, and decanonization won't erase the bad writing and bad character interaction of the early seasons from the viewer's mind. You think the regular TV viewer CARES if a show is canon or not? All they know is, it sucked early, they won't watch, canon or not. How many of those people do you think will ever NOTICE the show was dropped from canon?
When a new Trek series arrives, they may watch, or they may not -- but "canon" only matters to die-hard fans who wants to analyse bit and make it part of a greater timeline -- NOT to the casual TV viewer who makes the Nielsens. Your argument holds NO water.
.
I officially declare the show decanonised.
I kind of figured this would be the last season considering the scare they gave fans last season. These are interesting times. With Nemesis a failure (compared to previous Trek films) and Enterprise cancelled, where does that leave film/television Trek? Perhaps, after a break, Star Trek will come back with a new production team.
I've been missing a lot of Enterprise episodes recently, but I'm going to try to watch the remainder of the season.
I've been missing a lot of Enterprise episodes recently, but I'm going to try to watch the remainder of the season.
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