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Can you recommend a show for a fan of TOS and Babylon 5, but not the other Trek series?

nagyvezír

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I love TOS, it will always be my favorite show. I think that if I had to say what I think sets it apart from the other Trek series', it's that Kirk, McCoy and even Spock are normal people with identifiable human emotions and flaws, on the other hand the TNG characters are self-righteous snobs who seem to think that their "evolved" farts smell like roses. In the TOS episode Arena, Kirk refuses to kill the Gorn and take revenge, but he wants to, which is a normal human thing, it's a good story because he resisted doing something wrong out of strong emotion. If that episode were on TNG, I can imagine Picard saying something like "I don't feel a need for revenge, I'm not like those barbarians from the twentieth century!" The whole show is filled with that sort of odd misanthropy, even in "Encounter at Farpoint" the main arc of the episode is centred on putting humanity on trial for being awful while Picard apologizes for how disgusting the people of the 20th century (you and I) are and talks about how superior the people of his era are.

That sort of attitude taints almost every episode in some way and I hate it. I also can't stand the Pinnochio trope that Data goes through and the implication that androids are equal to living beings, that the people in "Measure of a Man" who want to take him apart and learn how he works are somehow the bad guys, and the idea that Doctor Pulaski is somehow bad for treating him like a machine with smart programming (which he is) as opposed to a living being, which he is not. You see the same thing with Holodeck characters like Moriarty, and the Doctor in Voyager. I understand it's a metaphor for things like black people and gypsies fighting for their equality, but the implication is frightening and pretty repulsive.

Voyager is similarly misanthropic with worse acting, and DS9 has the same problems as TNG, except they try to be "gritty" by copying Babylon 5 and fail because they still portray the Federation as the unquestionable good guys even though they were the aggressive party who started the Dominion war. One thing that they did better was portray spirituality, which was present in TOS but sneered upon in TNG (another example of "Roddenberry's vision" disliking the reality of humanity) but they did it quite badly, and I cringed at "the Sisko."

Of the Star Trek films, my favorite is The Wrath of Khan, and to be honest my "head canon" ends after the film, with Spock dying and TNG never happening. However, the third movie isn't that bad.


As for Babylon 5, the acting is bad, it's cheesy and over dramatic, the set design looks like a stage play and the graphics look like Gameboy Color graphics, but the show is so good because it shows a more realistic human future (although I doubt there will be a United Earth, but I understand that it's an easier plot device than portraying different human states competing in space), much of the show is about moral gray area and the complexity of humanity, it's neither dystopia or utopia. Although the portrayal of human religion on the show was often highly inaccurate, I was really pleased that they portrayed it and used religious themes as plot devices. I'm also partial to the long arc sort of story as opposed episodic "monster of the week" sci-fi, but I don't mind either if the show is good.



Anyway, I'm sorry for writing all of that and I apologize if I offended anyone (I know people take Trek seriously) but I wanted to be clear about what I do and don't like, so that you can make recommendations for me.

What series do you recommend?
 
I've seen Cowboy Bebop, great anime. What's Farscape and Firefly like?

Farscape has muppets, fun characters and a pretty cool story. It's a little hit or miss at times, but worth watching

Firefly is only 13 eps I think plus one movie. The world it's set in kinda reminds me of Cowboy Bebop, but that's where similarities end. Again, fun characters and the story is interesting.

I wouldn't put either of these two in the same category of TOS or B5 greateness, but they are both really fun shows and worth watching.
 
Definitely check out Firefly; it's about the oddball crew of a ship finding their way around the universe. Very gritty, very human-centric; the main character Malcolm Reynolds was designed to be sort of a 'rougher' Han Solo.
Also give Stargate SG1 a whirl. You probably wouldn't care much for the spinoff's but the show is a lot of fun.
 
If you can speak German you can try Raumpatrouile Orion.
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^^ The first episode

Also, there's an anime called Captain Future, it is based on the 1940's pulp of the same name.
Another nice one is Ulysses 31 and Martian Successor Nadesico.
 
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As for Babylon 5, the acting is bad, it's cheesy and over dramatic, the set design looks like a stage play and the graphics look like Gameboy Color graphics, but the show is so good because it shows a more realistic human future (although I doubt there will be a United Earth, but I understand that it's an easier plot device than portraying different human states competing in space), much of the show is about moral gray area and the complexity of humanity, it's neither dystopia or utopia. Although the portrayal of human religion on the show was often highly inaccurate, I was really pleased that they portrayed it and used religious themes as plot devices. I'm also partial to the long arc sort of story as opposed episodic "monster of the week" sci-fi, but I don't mind either if the show is good.

Babylon 5 is pretty bad at how it makes it's leads basically perfect people who can do no wrong too, you know. The show doesn't have any morally ambiguous leads except Londo and G'Kar.

As for TNG, they merely treat their own past exactly the same way people today treat their own past. It's believably, if you can get past the fact they're talking about us.
 
Babylon 5 is pretty bad at how it makes it's leads basically perfect people who can do no wrong too, you know. The show doesn't have any morally ambiguous leads except Londo and G'Kar.

As for TNG, they merely treat their own past exactly the same way people today treat their own past. It's believably, if you can get past the fact they're talking about us.
Those perfect people? Which? The alcoholics, the drug addict, the genocidal war starter, their own Duke Nuke 'ems and obsessive career officers?
 
Battlestar Galactica
FarScape
Firefly
Futurama
Killjoys
The Expanse
I could never get into Killjoys. I would also recommend Stargate SG1, Stargate Atlantis and Dark Matter - although Atlantis gets a bit cheesy and Dark Matter is a bit derivative. The 100 I also find watchable if I ignore the bad science. New Battlestar Galactica has its problems but I liked it overall - the old series is very much an overripe cheese fest of its era and can be appreciated as such. The same goes for Blakes 7.

As for anime, I've enjoyed Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Planetes and Knights of Sidonia among other series.
 
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Those perfect people? Which?

Sheridan and Delenn, whose every action is always excused. And Garibaldi, who can't betray Sheridan of his own free will but must be brainwashed into it. And Ivanova, who also has no moral ambiguity.
 
Sheridan and Delenn, whose every action is always excused. And Garibaldi, who can't betray Sheridan of his own free will but must be brainwashed into it. And Ivanova, who also has no moral ambiguity.
You said they were perfect. Not so. Sheridan was kicked out of Earthforce, Delenn lost her seat on the Grey Council, Garibaldi lost his job as Head of Intelligence, no they faced consequences, too.
 
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