Seeing the deleted scenes finally, a lot of this would've added to the movie.
Can someone please explain to me...
- Thread starter Jetboogieman
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Seeing the deleted scenes finally, a lot of this would've added to the movie.
What was the backstory between Shinzon and his viceroy and why was he so much more (seemingly) determined to destroy earth instead of Romulus or the Romulans??
They were slaves together on Remus, IIRC. It's been a long time since I read the novelization. I was hoping there'd be more detail at:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Reman_Viceroy
I seem to recall they first met when Shinzon was quite young. I think Shinzon saved his Vkruk's life at some point, and then the Viceroy was able to use his mental powers to help the hyper-aging Shinzon overcome his physical pain caused by the failed cloning technique. Later, Shinzon commanded a fleet of Remans (representing the Romulan Empire), during the Dominion War, with Vkruk at his side.
This again?
Shinzon had already decimated (dessicated, actually) the entire Romulan Senate. What elso did he need to do to the populace, if most were as poor as we saw in "Unification", relegated to tatty old soup kitchens to survive.
And, as I said before, it seemed obvious to me that Shinzon was targeting Earth for two reasons: to get Picard's attention; and to demonstrate to the Romulans (and Remans) that he could achieve something that the Romulan's had failed to do with Earth since the post-ENT, pre-TOS Earth-Romulan War.
His motivations still didn't make a lick of sense for a man they called a 'capable commander'. I can't believe that Shinzon would overlook the fact that the Federation would unleash hell on the Romulans and the Remans if Earth was destroyed.
The Thalaron weapon was essentially a one time 'bang' weapon. Shinzon might get Earth with it, but after that every Starfleet captain and his mother is going to know exactly what to look for and exactly how long they have before the weapon goes off.
Didn't buy the set-up and didn't buy Shinzon's motivations... not even for a moment.
Sorry Christopher, you can't slap a coat of chocolate on a turd and call it a Snicker's bar.
The Thalaron weapon was essentially a one time 'bang' weapon. Shinzon might get Earth with it, but after that every Starfleet captain and his mother is going to know exactly what to look for and exactly how long they have before the weapon goes off.
Didn't buy the set-up and didn't buy Shinzon's motivations... not even for a moment.
Sorry Christopher, you can't slap a coat of chocolate on a turd and call it a Snicker's bar.
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There was also the fact that the Remans were slaves and wanted to rise up and defeat their masters. Plus they wanted to be the masters too and not just of the Romulans. Shinzon said that the Remans will not bow to anyone anymore, the Romulans or even the Federation so all that had to be dominated.
Once again those who are coming up with motivations for shinzon are ignoring the fact that these things were never established in the movie by the character or anyone around him.
If they had one scene where Shinzon said i want to destroy Earth to make the romulan empire the premier power in the quadrant, then i would have been happy, but he never did.
And the ultimate failure is with the writers and the director, your bad guy has to have strong and clear motivations for WHAT he's doing, otherwise the movie doesn't make sense.
Nemesis would have been a pretty decent movie if this gaping hole had been filled.
Picard: "What is all of this about?"
Shinzon: "It's about destiny, Picard! It's about a Reman outcast--"
Picard: "You're not Reman!"
Shinzon: "And I'm not quite human! So what am I? A Shadow? An Echo? My life is meaningless as long as you're still alive!"
Picard: "If your issues are with me, then deal with me. This has nothing to do with my crew, nothing to do with the Federation!"
Shinzon: "Oh, but it does! We will not bow before anyone as slaves. Not the Romulans, and not your mighty Federation. We are a race bred for war...and conquest."
They did make it clear, it's just a flimsy excuse to go after the Federation. He feels like he's nothing if Picard is alive, despite all his military conquests. The Federation isn't trying to conquer the Romulans. They made Shinzon like a Jem'Hadar, the Remans, too. It's more of the same from 10 years of dark Trek. I'm tired of the darker and darker material they explored with these characters. There's not enough about Shinzon's past. There's not enough to make him a sympathetic character and Stuart Baird's use of black and dark makes it that much easier to dismiss him as a bad guy. There's not a lot there in the movie. I didn't grow to feel sympathy for him. I didn't fear him. They are in this middle ground where he just seems to be like every other bad guy.
(About the quote: it's done from memory, so it may be a little off, but that's the gist).
Its relatively accurate, but again its weak, and the fault is still with the writers and director.
The Romulans have never had to "bow" to the Federation and were never, ever in danger of doing so.
Shinzons actions however would lead the Klingons, the Federation and quite possibly what was left of the Cardassian Union to join forces against the New Romulan Leadership in an attempt to defeat it.
Talk about counterproductive :P
Yet again Shinzon intentifes himself as a Remen, he's talking about the Remens bowing before the Romulans and the Federation.
yeah, they do have that big conversation with Shinzon, but it's kind of incoherent and a flimsy rationale.
Remember, at that point neither the Romulans or the Remans were enemies of the Federation. The UFP barely knew anything about the Remans, so the Remans certainly weren't "bowing" to them.
It was basically Shinzon leading a slave revolt, and after achieving victory, deciding to go after a new and random opponent.
You can chalk it up to a psychological inferiority thing with Shinzon against Picard, but Picard had NOTHING to do with Shinzon's existence, or history of opression.
Shinzon had achieved a lot as his own man, he had no reason to go after Earth, and his viceroy certainly had no reason to follow him in his act of insanity.
Remember, at that point neither the Romulans or the Remans were enemies of the Federation. The UFP barely knew anything about the Remans, so the Remans certainly weren't "bowing" to them.
It was basically Shinzon leading a slave revolt, and after achieving victory, deciding to go after a new and random opponent.
You can chalk it up to a psychological inferiority thing with Shinzon against Picard, but Picard had NOTHING to do with Shinzon's existence, or history of opression.
Shinzon had achieved a lot as his own man, he had no reason to go after Earth, and his viceroy certainly had no reason to follow him in his act of insanity.
It does seem the Remans first goal would've been to solidify their power within the Empire before going off half-cocked starting wars. At the end of Nemesis the Federation and Romulans may have been talking but you can guarantee that there were reprisals against the Remans and they quickly returned to being a slave race within the Empire.
Taking Wing has the Remans becoming the responsibility of the Klingons. Even getting their own little area on Romulus.
Another one of those implausible stretches taken by TrekLit.
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