Can shuttlecrafts go to warp?
- Thread starter The Rock
- Start date
They've got nacelles, so they've got warp drive. Seems simple enough to me.
Especially when they have a glowing impulse engine-like feature at the rear of the fuselage for sublight speeds.
They also have that narrow horizontal red strip astern that could be their tailpipe, as it's similar in color and relative dimensions to the supposed tailpipes of the TNG Type 7 shuttles and shuttlepods (for which there is no alternative giant yellow-glowing row of squares). Sure, it's got writing on it if you look closely, but why not?
Perhaps impulse can utilize both starship-style tailpipes (which have no propulsive role, they simply belch out the wastes at all flight modes) and, optionally, additionally some rocket nozzle style things that glow differently depending on flight mode? Type 6 and all the recent shuttles with similar upper-buttcheek fairings for glowing things would be of the later type.
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps impulse can utilize both starship-style tailpipes (which have no propulsive role, they simply belch out the wastes at all flight modes) and, optionally, additionally some rocket nozzle style things that glow differently depending on flight mode? Type 6 and all the recent shuttles with similar upper-buttcheek fairings for glowing things would be of the later type.
Timo Saloniemi
If a shuttle has what looks like warp nacelles, I'd say it's warp capable. TNG-era shuttle (type 6 thru 9) outboard engines all have the glowing blue "warp field grille" - what would this be, other than warp nacelles?
On shuttlepods, I think the simpler looking "nacelles" are impulse engines, and the ships are limited to sublight.
On shuttlepods, I think the simpler looking "nacelles" are impulse engines, and the ships are limited to sublight.
I think El-Baz was sublight. Warp capable by PICARD era perhaps...
As regards the El-Baz, Riker said that "the shuttlecraft doesn't have warp capacity". But this was in response to Picard speculating that the shuttle could have time traveled using warp slingshot around a star. Why would Picard not realize the shuttle is incapable of warp?
a) Because Picard wasn't thinking straight?
b) Because shuttlepods of that type can have warp engines as an optional extra, but sometimes the nacelles are empty, and Picard didn't know which applied here?
c) Because Picard didn't know that the warp drive of the El-Baz was broken?
Both b and c leave open the possibility that Type 15 is warp-capable. But no episode actually shows a Type 15 at warp or in interstellar transit.
At best, we learn that LaForge was supposed to make his way back to the mothership across interstellar distances in "Mind's Eye" in such a pod, but (as part of the Romulan plot there) purportedly ended up getting a ride from a conveniently available proper warpship. Perhaps hitching a ride had always been the plan, though, and only the specific ride here was news to the heroes, who had expected LaForge to board a somewhat later ship?
Timo Saloniemi
a) Because Picard wasn't thinking straight?
b) Because shuttlepods of that type can have warp engines as an optional extra, but sometimes the nacelles are empty, and Picard didn't know which applied here?
c) Because Picard didn't know that the warp drive of the El-Baz was broken?
Both b and c leave open the possibility that Type 15 is warp-capable. But no episode actually shows a Type 15 at warp or in interstellar transit.
At best, we learn that LaForge was supposed to make his way back to the mothership across interstellar distances in "Mind's Eye" in such a pod, but (as part of the Romulan plot there) purportedly ended up getting a ride from a conveniently available proper warpship. Perhaps hitching a ride had always been the plan, though, and only the specific ride here was news to the heroes, who had expected LaForge to board a somewhat later ship?
Timo Saloniemi
I was talking about TOS shuttlecraft. The TNG-era shuttlepods were sublight, but they didn't have the same kind of nacelles as the warp-capable shuttles, just some boxy things with a nacelle-like shape. The larger TNG shuttlecraft, like the TOS shuttlecraft, had nacelles that were clearly miniaturized versions of the main ship's warp nacelles, which would make no sense if they were not intended to be warp nacelles themselves.
TOS-wise, it would appear that certain shuttlecraft can't go to warp unless they have an extra 'sled' attached. Such as the one in TMP which Spock uses to get aboard the Enterprise.
Yes, case closed. What @Christopher has said.
...The thing there is that the TNG shuttlepod nacelles were not all that different from the warp nacelles of the larger shuttles. Indeed, the Type 6 nacelles were similar nondescript boxes, just with blue windows to the sides - but the TOS nacelles were nondescript cylinders, without such windows.
So nothing real can be deduced from looks. And, say, we still don't know whether the TNG shuttlepod can do warp or not, apart from hearing that individual pods of that type were at times unable to do warp. Which is about the same we can say about Type 7.
It's really all open to speculation, which I guess is good, because this reduces contradictions in the fictional universe.
Timo Saloniemi
So nothing real can be deduced from looks. And, say, we still don't know whether the TNG shuttlepod can do warp or not, apart from hearing that individual pods of that type were at times unable to do warp. Which is about the same we can say about Type 7.
It's really all open to speculation, which I guess is good, because this reduces contradictions in the fictional universe.
Timo Saloniemi
I always took Spock's TMP shuttle to be similar to the travelpod, more for use between surface and orbit than anything long-distance (it doesn't even seem to have impulse engines), hence the need for the sled.
The TMP shuttles were supposed to be modular, with different attachments that could be plugged in for different functionalities, including different kinds of engine. The Vulcan shuttle wasn't quite the same as the Enterprise shuttles, but was based on the same design principles.
I like the idea of a warp engine that a sublight ship can be plugged into, turning it into an FTL ship. I have something similar in my original fiction -- warp drive is achieved using a spherical "warp cage" that surrounds a ship, with the warp bubble forming along its surface, so you can basically put any existing spacecraft inside it, size permitting.
OTOH, the Vulcan sled is a logistical nightmare. What is the sled supposed to achieve without the pod? Or the pod without the sled? The only thing the separation achieves in practice is making the passenger compartment compatible with slightly tighter docking spots - something that would have been achieved more simply by having the permanently fixed nacelles mounted on top of the craft, so that there would be no reorienting needed when mating with the Enterprise bridge.
The same applies to the putative onboard shuttles, too. Sure, they aren't always stranded interstellar distances away from the nearest assembly yard, unlike Spock's courier - they have their switchable modules stacked in the shuttlebay that is always close to their base of ops. Unless they go to warp, that is, at which point they are again rather literally either up the creek without a paddle, or then in a porcelain shop with one.
Modularity works fine for things that never go anywhere. With vehicles, it usually means getting all the wrong modules stranded in all the wrong places and leaving the vehicles chronically wanting for the ones that are actually needed.
(To boot, it seems Probert's idea for modules involved impulse pods that precluded warp pods and vice versa. While impulse without warp is fine, it's fairly difficult to imagine situations where one would need warp without impulse.)
Timo Saloniemi
The same applies to the putative onboard shuttles, too. Sure, they aren't always stranded interstellar distances away from the nearest assembly yard, unlike Spock's courier - they have their switchable modules stacked in the shuttlebay that is always close to their base of ops. Unless they go to warp, that is, at which point they are again rather literally either up the creek without a paddle, or then in a porcelain shop with one.
Modularity works fine for things that never go anywhere. With vehicles, it usually means getting all the wrong modules stranded in all the wrong places and leaving the vehicles chronically wanting for the ones that are actually needed.
(To boot, it seems Probert's idea for modules involved impulse pods that precluded warp pods and vice versa. While impulse without warp is fine, it's fairly difficult to imagine situations where one would need warp without impulse.)
Timo Saloniemi
What if the shuttle nacelles aren't meant to generate a warp field, but to maintain one? If a shuttle is launched at warp, maybe the nacelles allow the shuttle to maintain that speed or slowly drop speed, so the shuttle can travel at warp, but cannot enter warp on its own.
That's a big if, though. How often have we seen a shuttle launched at warp? The Enterprise was stationary outside Murasaki 312 when it launched the Galileo. In "The Menagerie," Kirk and Mendez's shuttle was launched from Starbase 11, which was on a planet and obviously not moving at warp. Similarly, the shuttle in "Metamorphosis" was traveling from Epsilon Canaris to the Enterprise, and the shuttle Lokai piloted in "...Last Battlefield" was stolen from a starbase.
In my Head Cannon for the 26th century, most Civilian Astro-Mobiles get to travel the last few light years via Warp Ferry's that are either:
- Independent Warp Sleds where you dock your STL Astro-Mobile to the Warp Sled, and tell it where you want to go via your touch screen that links up with the Warp Sled's piloting interface. The choice of Warp Sled Styles from "Vulcan Ring Style", "Twin Warp Nacelle", other Warp Drive styles co-exist for the public to choose. These are usually for people who travel to less popular locations or want to spelunk about on their own without a pre-determined plan.
- Soliton Wave Network Sleds where you dock with the Sled and wait for Soliton Wave to come by and power the Soliton Wave Warp Sleds to the destination. You and many other travelers who frequent that specific popular route will ride the Soliton Wave.
- Independent Warp Sleds where you dock your STL Astro-Mobile to the Warp Sled, and tell it where you want to go via your touch screen that links up with the Warp Sled's piloting interface. The choice of Warp Sled Styles from "Vulcan Ring Style", "Twin Warp Nacelle", other Warp Drive styles co-exist for the public to choose. These are usually for people who travel to less popular locations or want to spelunk about on their own without a pre-determined plan.
- Soliton Wave Network Sleds where you dock with the Sled and wait for Soliton Wave to come by and power the Soliton Wave Warp Sleds to the destination. You and many other travelers who frequent that specific popular route will ride the Soliton Wave.
Top-mounting would rule out it using those docking ports under the saucer, inside those hatches.
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