Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATIONS?

[InklingStar]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

The "I was never that young" line is the one line that does sound like Chekov. It hearkens back to his first appearance on the series as a brash young Ensign, eager to please.

 

[AlphaMan]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

golakers said:
Geordi's treatment of Scotty is what pisses me off about this episode.

Isn't Scott supposed to be a Starfleet legend? Geordi shows no respect, no sense of history and doesn't even seem awed by the possible the most famous chief engineer in Starfleet history.

Poor writing.

Not neccessarily.

How many old people do you revere in your life? Any of them war vets? Do you even know much about their accomplishments in thier youth? I think Relics says a lot about how we treat our elders. I think it's a great episode.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

InklingStar said:
The "I was never that young" line is the one line that does sound like Chekov. It hearkens back to his first appearance on the series as a brash young Ensign, eager to please.

It's very Chekov. For that matter, his familiarity with Kirk felt like the logical result of Chekov's life, from the brash and protected Ensign through to first officer of the Reliant to being the guy Kirk could trust with his ship two movies back. It suggests the characters' relationships have evolved in that time between movies, but in a way that feels plausible to me.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Geordi is a dick in this episode.

I don't understand why people are so hard on poor Geordi in this episode.

Imagine you're doing your job, you're under a lot of pressure from the boss to get a report done when in barges a guy who had a job similar to yours 50 years ago (yes, I know Scotty was out for 70+) he just got out of a coma and is interested in "helping" you out. Since this guy has been in a coma for so long he hasn't been able to change and evolve with your job all of his knowledge is half a century out of date. So you ask him, politely, to leave you to your work and you'll happily catch him up when you're not so busy.

He rebuffs you and procedes to mess around in your office he starts telling you YOU are doing things wrong that THIS isn't right and that THIS should be done this way, etc. and he even starts criticizing how you handle your boss so on and so on.

How WOULD you react. Would you smile and let this guy fool around in your place of work? Scotty BARGES into Engineering and starts messing with consoles, opens up the dilithium chamber, and starts harassing Geordi on how he talks with Picard and Geordi is pressed for time because he has to do his reports for Picard.

So, naturaly, Geordi is going to get pissed and tell Scotty off! SCOTTY was being the ass.

Now, perhaps, Geordi was a bit harsh but he was under pressure to do his report and Scotty is in there messing with things and PESTERING Geordi.

No, I'm of the side the Scotty was the ass here. When Geordi told him he didn't have time, needed to do his report, and he would be happy to show Scotty around when he had the time Scotty should've said, "Ok." and came back later.

Geordi was very nice and very pleasant twords Scotty when they first met at the begining and was GENUIELY willing to catch Scotty up, but at the momemnt he was BUSY! Hell, Scotty was an ass right off the bat when Geordi left for engineering from Sickbay and Scotty said, "Engineering?!!!! I thought you'd never ask!" and he jumped off the bed and was ready to bug Geordi right away!

I love Scotty, I love Geordi too, but Scotty was being the asshole here not giving Geordi his space to work.

 

[Timo]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

It's very Chekov. For that matter, his familiarity with Kirk felt like the logical result of Chekov's life, from the brash and protected Ensign through to first officer of the Reliant to being the guy Kirk could trust with his ship two movies back. It suggests the characters' relationships have evolved in that time between movies, but in a way that feels plausible to me.

Loved that part of the ST:GEN prologue. Hoped that Chekov would have organized a security posse rather than a medical team, though.

And Scotty was a good second choice for the prologue when Nimoy showed disinterest. Just fine-tune the dialogue a bit to remove the most blatant Spockisms, and Scotty becomes a perfectly acceptable sidekick for Kirk. But logically, he, not Kirk, should have been the one to know how to re-rig the deflector of a modern starship...

How about having Scotty go fix that thing, then run into trouble, at which point Kirk does his "Captain's place is at the bridge" routine and dashes to help his old engineer? And then heroically sacrifices his life to save Scotty from the hull breach?

Now that would have made the "Relics" remark even more poignant. The last thing Kirk ever did was save Scotty's life - so of course the captain will come back from the dead to do it again when needed.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Durek]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

reverie said:

Christopher said:
And even if Geordi did have a sense of history, that didn't mean he was going to be happy about having a guy who was hopelessly behind the times butting in on his job in the middle of a crisis. Besides, not everybody does have a sense of history. It's not mandated by law or anything.

That's okay, I work with a girl (30 years old) who really doesn't know who Benjamin Franklin is. She knows he's on money, and assumes he was a president, but that's it.

Damn. The US educational system is worse than I thought. I knew who Ben Franklin was from the time I was 5.

 

[Danoz]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Crewman6 said:
To answer the OP:

Scotty used the shuttle given him by Picard to travel back to the 23rd Century and THEN experienced the events of "Generations."

Simple.

Now THAT is an explanation worthy of Trek, I like that best.

 

[DrTaylor]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Danoz said:

Crewman6 said:
To answer the OP:

Scotty used the shuttle given him by Picard to travel back to the 23rd Century and THEN experienced the events of "Generations."

Simple.

Now THAT is an explanation worthy of Trek, I like that best.

Really?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

About who was a dick and who wasn't: I'd say both Scotty and Geordi were dicks. Scotty should've realized he was out of step with current tech and Geordi should've understood that Scotty was out of sorts after waking up 80 years into the future. Both should've been more considerate of how theother guy was feeling.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Jack Bauer said:
About who was a dick and who wasn't: I'd say both Scotty and Geordi were dicks. Scotty should've realized he was out of step with current tech and Geordi should've understood that Scotty was out of sorts after waking up 80 years into the future. Both should've been more considerate of how theother guy was feeling.

I'd agree with that but still say Scotty was more of dick for fooling around in Engineering when Geordi was busy, proclaiming he was going to help and then going off on Geordi telling him how to do his job.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Babaganoosh said:
Besides, Scotty wasn't even supposed to *be* in Generations. Leonard Nimoy was going to play Spock, but turned it down, and so all lines involving Spock were given to Scotty.

(Same goes for Chekov. It was supposed to be McCoy, but De Kelley was too ill to appear. So McCoy "became" Chekov in the script)

I remember hearing something about that.

 

[Trekker4747]

darkshadow0001 said:

Babaganoosh said:
Besides, Scotty wasn't even supposed to *be* in Generations. Leonard Nimoy was going to play Spock, but turned it down, and so all lines involving Spock were given to Scotty.

(Same goes for Chekov. It was supposed to be McCoy, but De Kelley was too ill to appear. So McCoy "became" Chekov in the script)

I remember hearing something about that.

So... Spock was supposed to mutter to himself, "Damn fine ship if you ask me?" and say, "I don't know how much longer I can keep her together."



I think the idea was to have the entire original cast there for the final send-off but Nimoy didn't want to do it because his role was too small and insignifigant, DeKelly was too sick and not sure on Takei (either the old battle with Shatner or script reasons having Sulu out still with Excelsior.)

 

[darkshadow0001]

Trekker4747 said:

darkshadow0001 said:

Babaganoosh said:
Besides, Scotty wasn't even supposed to *be* in Generations. Leonard Nimoy was going to play Spock, but turned it down, and so all lines involving Spock were given to Scotty.

(Same goes for Chekov. It was supposed to be McCoy, but De Kelley was too ill to appear. So McCoy "became" Chekov in the script)

I remember hearing something about that.

So... Spock was supposed to mutter to himself, "Damn fine ship if you ask me?" and say, "I don't know how much longer I can keep her together."



I think the idea was to have the entire original cast there for the final send-off but Nimoy didn't want to do it because his role was too small and insignifigant, DeKelly was too sick and not sure on Takei (either the old battle with Shatner or script reasons having Sulu out still with Excelsior.)

Well actually from what I remember hearing back in the day that the whole original cast was supposed to be in, but they didn't like the script much, or more specifically, the way Kirk died. Not sure if any of this is true, but just from what I remember hearing about.

 

[Akira Class]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

darkshadow0001 said:
Well actually from what I remember hearing back in the day that the whole original cast was supposed to be in, but they didn't like the script much, or more specifically, the way Kirk died. Not sure if any of this is true, but just from what I remember hearing about.

That's not how I recall it, and I have a hard time believing that Nichols and Takei would turn down a paycheck just because of their beefs with the script. It never stopped them before. No, what I had heard was that involving the entire old and new crews would have busted the budget and that Moore & Co just could not come up with a story that would pit both crews against each other and still have them both ending up as heroic. So, they went with the Generations script and Nimoy turned it down because the Spock role had no meat to it. He even turned down the opportunity to direct. De was indeed to ill for his role.

 

[TJinPgh]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

kakashi76767 said:
Imagine if Patton emerged today and started pressing buttons in the pentagon during a crisis...

We should be so lucky...

everyone would know who he was, and everyone would be annoyed. Scotti admitted to his little scam of telling Kirk that repairs or whatever would need more time then they actually did, so that he would look like a magician when they were completed ahead of schedual. wow what a legend.

True, but Scotty almost always came up with the sollutions on his own. Geordi? Usually took a couple of trips to relieve himself with an engineer holobabe before he could muster up enough inspiration to fix anything.

He didn't have the slightest clue what Scotty's ship could do, despite admitting that most of the technology on it was still in use.

If he didn't read it in a book somewhere, he didn't know about it.

Although, I suppose one could argue that he DID honor Scotty in a way. He never questioned the book. And Scotty wrote the book

So, in a way, you could say Scotty taught Geordi everything he knows... but not everything Scotty knows

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Trekker4747 said:
So... Spock was supposed to mutter to himself, "Damn fine ship if you ask me?" and say, "I don't know how much longer I can keep her together."

Well, they did some tweaking, of course, but essentially Chekov ends up in sickbay as an acting medic because that's what McCoy had to do originally - and Scotty knows all the science angles on the Nexus because Spock was supposed to do that bit.

There was also a line about Chekov's daughter in the first version, but she became Demora Sulu in the fast rewrite, so that Kirk could still ask, "When did he get time to have a family?"

After Nimoy and Kelley declined (preferring their "Unification" and "Farpoint" send-offs to be remembered by), they went for Doohan and Takei. Takei turned it down (preferring his ST VI send-off to be remembered by), so they went to Koenig. And thus they had their cast.

No one approached Nichelle Nichols about "Generations", although yes, early plans were that the whole main cast might have been involved in the scene in some way, but not as written.

The cameo scene she turned down was the viewscreen scene the writers created for her in "Flashback" (VOY). Nichols wanted to be on the same set with Takei and Grace Lee Whitney, but the writers were reluctant to fabricate a special "need to beam over" scene just to accomodate her, so she turned down the chance.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Well, I guess they way they did it it works out pretty nice.

Spock and McCoy had both already been in TNG (though granted Scotty had too) so it works nicely to give Chekov that chance to come forward and have his last outing. Shame Sulu didn't but I'm not sure how that would've worked in the script since the implication seemed to be the Sulu had "moved on."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Can "Relics" be reconciled with events in ST: GENERATION

Trekker4747 said:
Shame Sulu didn't but I'm not sure how that would've worked in the script since the implication seemed to be the Sulu had "moved on."

If Takei had agreed, Kirk would have been asking Sulu when Chekov had had the time to produce a family.