Can 'Omega Glory' ever be fully restored?

[Kelso]

a) In the Trek universe it is possible for other planets to develop identically (or nearly identically) to Earth. This sort of thing was common in 60's tv shows. Check out The Twilight Zone some time ("Third from the Sun" and "The Parallel" spring to mind).

or


b) Who cares? The story is entertaining enough.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The odds of the US Constitution, for example, evolving EXACTLY THE SAME on two completely alien worlds, are so remote as to be effectively impossible.

Ummm, have you even read the ten thousand plus pages of Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Development?

I thought not.

Ten thousand pages? It's like one sentence, if that. It was certainly never said onscreen, anyway.

And it's a stupid idea, IMHO. I know why the writers invented it, but it still sucks.

 

[Chrisisall]

Ten thousand pages? It's like one sentence

You clearly have no intimate temporal experience, do you?

 

[trevanian]

Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans.

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest...

Yeah, but there was no way it could possibly have been over ten thousand years in the future. That's how long ago the Omegans had their war, according to the episode.

And it plays utter havoc with SPACE SEED and TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY as well, with the rough two centuries references.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Nero is somehow responsible or the Temporal Cold War or The Guardian of Forever...

 

[Christopher]

a) In the Trek universe it is possible for other planets to develop identically (or nearly identically) to Earth. This sort of thing was common in 60's tv shows. Check out The Twilight Zone some time ("Third from the Sun" and "The Parallel" spring to mind).

And really, if you think about it, the idea that an alien culture would develop identically to America or Rome or China aside from a few minor variations is no more absurd than the idea that an alien species would evolve identically to Homo sapiens aside from a few forehead bumps. They're both equally impossible, and they both serve the same purpose: to accommodate the limits of TV budgets and technology.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And really, if you think about it, the idea that an alien culture would develop identically to America or Rome or China aside from a few minor variations is no more absurd than the idea that an alien species would evolve identically to Homo sapiens aside from a few forehead bumps.

At least with that, we know it was done on purpose ("The Chase").

 

[Joel_Kirk]

The Omega Glory (and the novel Forged in Fire) was going to be the basis of my own Star Trek novel proposal.

I was still confused by the Omega Virus itself:

So those who beam down, and then 'beam up' (or at least those not native to the planet) will die and crystallize. However, if they stay on the planet for a period of time, they build up an immunity???

According to Forged in Fire, Sulu had immunity, if I remember correctly.

Still, the Yangs and Kohms built up an immunity over several hundreds of years?

I can watch the episode again on Youtube, and look up little things online (i.e. Memory Alpha), but it was confusing.

EDIT: Didn't want to derail the thread, but since we are speaking about Omega Glory (albeit in regards to another aspect of the episode), I didn't want to start another thread about the same subject.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

And really, if you think about it, the idea that an alien culture would develop identically to America or Rome or China aside from a few minor variations is no more absurd than the idea that an alien species would evolve identically to Homo sapiens aside from a few forehead bumps.

I partly disagree. We have basis to compare actual intelligent alien life with Star Trek's take. It is possible that aliens could be quite human like...and even be here already...you next door neighbour, your boss, that guy on the corner...

 

[CaptMurdock]

I know I'm going to get rapped in the mouth for this, but the only way such episodes as "Omega Glory" and "Bread and Circuses" can make any sense with regard not only to the whole of the Trek universe but just to common frickin' sense is to apply the following:

While the events depicted in all episodes of all series and movies of Star Trek did happen in an overall sense, some of the details shown on screen must be taken as apocryphal or at least wildly inaccurate.

To wit: the Omegans, while very much humanoid, are not an Earth colony. They had a biotoxic war some centuries or even millennia ago that destroyed their civilization. The more savage civilization, looking very much like the Caucasian variation of humanity, had preserved their documents and even a banner of their nation, both of which are similar in look and tone to the U.S. Constitution and the Star-Spangled Banner, but are not identical. When Cloud William recites an ancient prayer, Kirk quotes the Pledge of Allegiane, not to correct Cloud William's words but to show that he comes from a culture that reveres the same "worship words."

As for 892-IV, theirs is a culture which still practices slavery and a callous polytheism, similar to that of the Roman Empire of Earth, but not called that. This empire is hedonistic and stagnant despite its technological advances, but there is hope...a small but growing belief that all people are not only created equal, but have a responsibility to one another.

Call me deconstructionist, call me revisionist...

 

[Nardpuncher]

Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans.

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest...

So I have no idea where you got this notion of a deleted scene from, unless it's from your own imagination.

Please don't ever accuse me of lying ever again. You want to know where I got that? Right HERE, that's where. If you have a problem, go talk to whoever wrote the Memory Alpha article, capisco?

And besides, can you come up with ANY other explanation as to how Omega IV could have evolved EXACT COPIES of the Constitution, and the US flag, and the terms 'Yankees' and 'Communists'? I highly doubt it. There can be no other explanation - these people are humans. It MUST be true. Now, exactly how humans got from Earth to Omega IV, is of course highly variable. But that must, by definition, have happened.

Don't fret.
If you haven't noticed yet, Christopher's main reason for being here is to patrol the boards looking for people to correct and amend.
At least that's what 90% of his posts are. You'll get used to it.

 

[Red Ranger]

I don't think adding the scene, if it was even filmed, would make all that much difference. As long as you leave "E Pleb Neesta" in there, it'll still seem like corny tripe.

Joe, suddenly not hungry

Exactly! Horrid episode. -- RR

 

[Middle Earther]

I don't think adding the scene, if it was even filmed, would make all that much difference. As long as you leave "E Pleb Neesta" in there, it'll still seem like corny tripe.

Joe, suddenly not hungry

Exactly! Horrid episode. -- RR

Horrible episode. Not even worth the remastered budget, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Warped9]

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest.

During TOS' production there was some question as to exactly when TOS took place: between 200 to 700 years ahead. But it wasn't TNG, but rather TMP and TWoK that placed TOS more firmly in the latter part of the 23rd century.

 

[Christopher]

While the events depicted in all episodes of all series and movies of Star Trek did happen in an overall sense, some of the details shown on screen must be taken as apocryphal or at least wildly inaccurate.

To wit: the Omegans, while very much humanoid, are not an Earth colony. They had a biotoxic war some centuries or even millennia ago that destroyed their civilization. The more savage civilization, looking very much like the Caucasian variation of humanity, had preserved their documents and even a banner of their nation, both of which are similar in look and tone to the U.S. Constitution and the Star-Spangled Banner, but are not identical. When Cloud William recites an ancient prayer, Kirk quotes the Pledge of Allegiane, not to correct Cloud William's words but to show that he comes from a culture that reveres the same "worship words."

That's pretty much how I choose to interpret it. I treat the last act as apocryphal and assume that the outcome was similar, but without the American paraphernalia. I would treat the whole episode as apocryphal, as I do with some episodes like "The Alternative Factor," but the first three acts are fairly good and the story is referenced in one or two novels that I count in my personal continuity.

As for 892-IV, theirs is a culture which still practices slavery and a callous polytheism, similar to that of the Roman Empire of Earth, but not called that. This empire is hedonistic and stagnant despite its technological advances, but there is hope...a small but growing belief that all people are not only created equal, but have a responsibility to one another.

That's a take that hadn't occurred to me. I tend to think of 892-IV as a Preserver world, seeded with Romans, but I've never thought of a good rationalization for the use of American English. So maybe I could split the difference -- they're still Romans, but the parts about them speaking and writing English are apocryphal. Kirk didn't read the brand names in the magazine, he had them read to him by Septimus or one of the ex-slaves.

 

[Timo]

Granted that we have to accept a certain number of impossibilities before brunch when watching a scifi show such as Star Trek. I'm still not fond of voluntarily accepting things that can be explained away in some way that is both more sensible and dramatically more satisfactory. And apparently some Trek writers feel the same way, which is why we got things like "The Chase".

Finding the US Constitution on an alien world is basically in the same category as finding black swastikas on white roundels on red backgrounds on an alien world. "Patterns of Force" gave us a plausible description of how the latter could happen: an ambitious individual from a technologically advanced culture could turn a more primitive culture into his private playground, and would use elements from his own culture to boost his position: technology, symbology, ideology. "Omega Glory" is simply the same story without our heroes coming to stop said individual in time, so all we see is the aftermath a few millennia later. John Gill had access to an interstellar spacecraft; the guy or gal with a fetish about the United States of America obviously had a time machine as well. It almost goes without saying that a time tamperer from Earth is behind the events in the episode - our heroes certainly don't have a pressing reason to say it, even if they take it for granted.

The pseudo-Rome in "Bread and Circuses" is actually more difficult to explain, since duplicate Earths can always be created by determined Earthlings, but they are far less likely to self-evolve... Or to remain on an Earth-like path if left to their own devices for long. "Omega Glory" got that part right!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FredH]

Finding the US Constitution on an alien world is basically in the same category as finding black swastikas on white roundels on red backgrounds on an alien world. "Patterns of Force" gave us a plausible description of how the latter could happen: an ambitious individual from a technologically advanced culture could turn a more primitive culture into his private playground, and would use elements from his own culture to boost his position: technology, symbology, ideology. "Omega Glory" is simply the same story without our heroes coming to stop said individual in time, so all we see is the aftermath a few millennia later. John Gill had access to an interstellar spacecraft; the guy or gal with a fetish about the United States of America obviously had a time machine as well. It almost goes without saying that a time tamperer from Earth is behind the events in the episode - our heroes certainly don't have a pressing reason to say it, even if they take it for granted.

So Omega IV's society was created by Berlinghoff Rasmussen, eh?

 

[SeerSGB]

As for 892-IV, theirs is a culture which still practices slavery and a callous polytheism, similar to that of the Roman Empire of Earth, but not called that. This empire is hedonistic and stagnant despite its technological advances, but there is hope...a small but growing belief that all people are not only created equal, but have a responsibility to one another.

That's a take that hadn't occurred to me. I tend to think of 892-IV as a Preserver world, seeded with Romans, but I've never thought of a good rationalization for the use of American English. So maybe I could split the difference -- they're still Romans, but the parts about them speaking and writing English are apocryphal. Kirk didn't read the brand names in the magazine, he had them read to him by Septimus or one of the ex-slaves.

Not my theory, but one someone mentioned to me a ways back: With the various times we've seen the "Enterprise" get tossed around in time, whose to say that some of these worlds, especially the ones with relatively-- compared to Earth-- small populations and very close to Terran cultures aren't the products of starships or even colony missions tossed back into time

 

[Chrisisall]

"Omega Glory" got that part right!

Timo, explain away Miri's planet looking JUST like Earth then.

 

[Grant]

What I don't think has been mentioned here is that Omega Glory was one of 3 or 4 episodes written for the second pilot.

Mudd's women and Where No Man being two others.....

If Omega was written that far back they pretty likely had NO firm idea how far into the future the series was set in.

So when they finally got around to filming Omega they for sure knew it was the thousands of years into the future that could be reconcilled with the fact that the virus made them live for many hundreds of years AND the fact that they were also descendents of early Earth space pioneers.

So they either cut the lines before filming or during editing.

I would guess BEFORE filming took place, since Roddenberry was still producing at the end of season 2 and he knew the series wasn't set a thousand years in the future I'm pretty sure.

And NO I don't think it could ever be restored because I've never heard of any TOS lost footage surviving intact. That is footage from episodes that ran long like 'Elaan.......'