Can 'Omega Glory' ever be fully restored?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You may know the scene I mean. It was filmed, but cut from every version of this episode that has ever existed. Even the most uncut DVDs (so far). It's at the end, where McCoy, Kirk and Spock debate whether or not the inhabitants of Omega IV are in fact Earth humans:

McCoy: Jim, the parallel's too close. They seem so completely Human. Is it possible that... ?
Kirk: The result of Earth's early space race?
Spock: Quite possible, Captain. They are aggressive enough to be Human.
McCoy: Now listen, Spock, you...

I know that no version of this episode that we've ever seen - neither on broadcast TV, videotape, laserdisc, or DVD - has ever contained this scene. Is it possible that it could appear on the forthcoming Blu-Ray release? Is there some reason NOT to include it? Has the print, for example, degraded too badly to restore?

 

[Christopher]

What are you talking about? The episode made it clear that the Yang and Kohm civilizations on Omega IV had been destroyed in a biological war over 10,000 years ago, and that there were individual Omegans who were more than 1000 years old. There's no way that same script would've proposed they were colonists from Earth's "early space race" only a few centuries before TOS. Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans. So I have no idea where you got this notion of a deleted scene from, unless it's from your own imagination.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans.

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest...

So I have no idea where you got this notion of a deleted scene from, unless it's from your own imagination.

Please don't ever accuse me of lying ever again. You want to know where I got that? Right HERE, that's where. If you have a problem, go talk to whoever wrote the Memory Alpha article, capisco?

And besides, can you come up with ANY other explanation as to how Omega IV could have evolved EXACT COPIES of the Constitution, and the US flag, and the terms 'Yankees' and 'Communists'? I highly doubt it. There can be no other explanation - these people are humans. It MUST be true. Now, exactly how humans got from Earth to Omega IV, is of course highly variable. But that must, by definition, have happened.

 

[retronaut]

I think that the writer of that Memory Alpha uses the term "edited from the final print" very loosely. There are many scenes in shooting scripts which are filmed, but which don't survive the final cut. So, it wasn't so much a case of the scene being "cut from every version of this episode that has ever existed." It's more a case of the scene being discarded from the outset. Once it hit the cutting room floor, that was the end of it. Today, such a scene from a TV show might show up on a DVD in the "Deleted Scenes" section, but for vintage shows, it is hit and miss as to whether such footage ever made it out of the cutting room. In all likelihood, the only remnants of the deleted Omega Glory scenes are in the form of cut-up film frames sold by Lincoln Enterprises back in the day.

 

[ToddPence]

I actually am the guy who wrote that section of the OG article on MA. I am in possession of a shooting script of the episode, and I can testify that the deleted lines of dialogue appear in the script exactly as Mr. Laser Beam wrote them, so he didn't make up anything. Whether or not they were filmed, and then edited from the film, is a matter entirely for conjecture. I think it very likely that the lines were cut BECAUSE someone realized the time-frame problem of the Omegans being early Earth colonists.

 

[Rackon]

I actually am the guy who wrote that section of the OG article on MA. I am in possession of a shooting script of the episode, and I can testify that the deleted lines of dialogue appear in the script exactly as Mr. Laser Beam wrote them, so he didn't make up anything. Whether or not they were filmed, and then edited from the film, is a matter entirely for conjecture. I think it very likely that the lines were cut BECAUSE someone realized the time-frame problem of the Omegans being early Earth colonists.

So it was in the shooting script but we have no proof positive that this dialogue was ever filmed, correct?

As you say, it seems logical to me that the lines were likely cut before filming.

 

[ToddPence]

Actually, while there is no conclusive proof that the scene was filmed, if you watch closely, when Kirk says his line "Gentlemen, the fighting here is over", he appears to be breaking up a beginning tiff between Spock and McCoy. In fact, it almost seems as that particular scene begins that McCoy has just finished saying something that Kirk has cut off.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Hmmm, I sort of wish they had changed the time frame to a few hundred years. We could have always retconned it via the Preservers or something. Anything would have been better than cosmic coincidence.

 

[Christopher]

Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans.

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest...

Yeah, but there was no way it could possibly have been over ten thousand years in the future. That's how long ago the Omegans had their war, according to the episode.

And besides, can you come up with ANY other explanation as to how Omega IV could have evolved EXACT COPIES of the Constitution, and the US flag, and the terms 'Yankees' and 'Communists'? I highly doubt it. There can be no other explanation - these people are humans. It MUST be true. Now, exactly how humans got from Earth to Omega IV, is of course highly variable. But that must, by definition, have happened.

Star Trek was produced on a tight budget. The only way Roddenberry could convince the network and the studio that it was affordable was by inventing the conceit of "parallel planetary development" -- worlds that developed in ways almost identical to Earth, so that it would be possible to recycle sets, props, costumes, and the like from historical films and shows rather than having to invent completely alien worlds every week. Some episodes, such as "A Piece of the Action," "Patterns of Force," and "The Paradise Syndrome," offered explanations for the parallels. But others just embraced it as a fantasy conceit. There was never any explanation for why "Miri"'s planet was an exact duplicate of Earth in every way, right down to the shape of the continents. There was no explanation for why the people on Landru's planet were wearing 19th-century Earth clothing, living in Earth-styled buildings, and using clocks marked in Arabic numerals. There was no explanation for why the planet in "Bread and Circuses" duplicated Ancient Rome crossed with 20th-century America, right down to its natives speaking and writing 20th-century American English, aside from a passing reference to "Hodgkins' Law of Parallel Planetary Development." Clearly "The Omega Glory" was following the same conceit. There wasn't meant to be a strictly rational explanation. The parallel worlds were a fantasy conceit that enabled the production of a television series on a practical budget.

Keep in mind that "The Omega Glory" was one of the three scripts written for consideration as the second pilot, simultaneously with "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Mudd's Women." So this would've probably been conceived by Roddenberry as a way of illustrating his money-saving parallel-worlds concept to the network. Since early episodes like "Miri" and "Return of the Archons" made no attempt to explain their Earth parallels, I wouldn't be surprised if this very early script took the same approach.

I'm not saying for a moment that I think "The Omega Glory" makes sense. I think the whole last act is utterly idiotic. I'm simply saying that, given the conceits of the story as it is told, there's no way the concept of it being an Earth colony could have been included in the shooting script. If that was in any draft, it must've been a very different, early draft.

(And Mr. Laser Beam, I wasn't accusing you of lying, just wondering if you were making some strange joke.)

 

[alchemist]

It was filmed...but I don't have the audio to accompany it...

 

[misterx3]

You may know the scene I mean. It was filmed, but cut from every version of this episode that has ever existed. Even the most uncut DVDs (so far). It's at the end, where McCoy, Kirk and Spock debate whether or not the inhabitants of Omega IV are in fact Earth humans:

McCoy: Jim, the parallel's too close. They seem so completely Human. Is it possible that... ?
Kirk: The result of Earth's early space race?
Spock: Quite possible, Captain. They are aggressive enough to be Human.
McCoy: Now listen, Spock, you...

I know that no version of this episode that we've ever seen - neither on broadcast TV, videotape, laserdisc, or DVD - has ever contained this scene. Is it possible that it could appear on the forthcoming Blu-Ray release? Is there some reason NOT to include it? Has the print, for example, degraded too badly to restore?

Are you sure? I have the entire remastered set of TOS (the one that was most recently released, not counting blu-ray) and I could have SWORN that scene was in there. In fact, I'm going to find my DVD's and post here tomorrow just to make sure I'm not crazy.

 

[M'Sharak]

Even James Blish, who used the "Earth colony" retcon to explain "Miri" away, doesn't use it in his "Omega Glory" adaptation, in part because there's no way to reconcile it with the age and history of the Omegans.

There was some debate as to exactly how far in the future TOS took place, until TNG put all that to rest...

So I have no idea where you got this notion of a deleted scene from, unless it's from your own imagination.

Please don't ever accuse me of lying ever again. You want to know where I got that? Right HERE, that's where. If you have a problem, go talk to whoever wrote the Memory Alpha article, capisco?

"Capisce?" ("Capisco" would be a response to such a question indicating that yes, "I understand.")

And at no point did Christopher accuse you of lying.

Bear in mind also that the story and an early version of the script was written before Star Trek ever went on the air. How that scene was supposed to have persisted all the way to the shooting script I can only guess, but they must have realized that it simply didn't fit with other details stated in dialogue.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Hmmm, I sort of wish they had changed the time frame to a few hundred years. We could have always retconned it via the Preservers or something. Anything would have been better than cosmic coincidence.

Omega IV could still be an Earth colony. Ten thousand years or no. All would take is just one phrase (regarding the expedition that founded said colony): Time warp.

I know, I know, that's reaching. I fully admit this. But if this - or any - episode does not explain itself, then it's up to us to do it for them. And as I said, it is completely impossible that the Constitution, the USA, etc. could have evolved, exactly as it did on Earth, on a completely alien world. There MUST be a link. There literally cannot be any other explanation.

I have the entire remastered set of TOS (the one that was most recently released, not counting blu-ray) and I could have SWORN that scene was in there.

No, it's not. I also have the remastered DVDs. In fact I just watched this very episode. That scene isn't there.

 

[nx1701g]

Was the scene included in the Trek Uncut Special Editions that Sci-Fi did in the late 90s?

 

[SG-17]

Hmmm, I sort of wish they had changed the time frame to a few hundred years. We could have always retconned it via the Preservers or something. Anything would have been better than cosmic coincidence.

Omega IV could still be an Earth colony. Ten thousand years or no. All would take is just one phrase (regarding the expedition that founded said colony): Time warp.

I know, I know, that's reaching. I fully admit this. But if this - or any - episode does not explain itself, then it's up to us to do it for them. And as I said, it is completely impossible that the Constitution, the USA, etc. could have evolved, exactly as it did on Earth, on a completely alien world. There MUST be a link. There literally cannot be any other explanation.

We don't know how "alien" that world was. 892-IV has the exact same water-to-land ratio that Earth has. We have no idea what the geographical conditions on the entire Omega planet are. This fact coupled with Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Development makes it not impossible for a Constitution, a USA, and a Soviet Russia to evolve exactly as it did on Earth (well up until the point where it all went to hell on Omega).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We don't know how "alien" that world was. 892-IV has the exact same water-to-land ratio that Earth has. We have no idea what the geographical conditions on the entire Omega planet are. This fact coupled with Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Development makes it not impossible for a Constitution, a USA, and a Soviet Russia to evolve exactly as it did on Earth (well up until the point where it all went to hell on Omega).

I'm not talking about geography or anything like that. If it was only that, then I would agree, planets like 892-IV or Omega IV could indeed have evolved on their own. But the nations that inhabit them? The governing documents that they use? Nuh-uh. Those cannot evolve independently. They require a specific set of circumstances. The odds of the US Constitution, for example, evolving EXACTLY THE SAME on two completely alien worlds, are so remote as to be effectively impossible.

I will actually buy the Preservers explanation, though.

 

[SG-17]

The possibility may be remote, but it still exists.

 

[Christopher]

Omega IV could still be an Earth colony. Ten thousand years or no. All would take is just one phrase (regarding the expedition that founded said colony): Time warp.

I know, I know, that's reaching. I fully admit this. But if this - or any - episode does not explain itself, then it's up to us to do it for them. And as I said, it is completely impossible that the Constitution, the USA, etc. could have evolved, exactly as it did on Earth, on a completely alien world. There MUST be a link. There literally cannot be any other explanation.

Yes, to us trying to make sense of it afterward, in a savvier era where we have different definitions of what constitutes plausible fiction, that's a natural rationalization to make. Heck, I came up with it myself years ago. But the topic here isn't about how we explain it after the fact. The topic here is whether Gene Roddenberry writing this script in 1965 would've included such a convoluted explanation.

After all, Roddenberry wasn't an obsessive Trekkie who wanted to believe this work of fiction could be treated as something real and logical. He was a television producer writing a script, and he had decided that the fantasy conceit of Earth-parallel cultures in space was the only way to make a space-exploration show affordable on a television budget. He knew it was fanciful, but he didn't care, because it allowed him to tell the stories he wanted to tell about people and ideas.

And this was the sixties. If you look at the TV science fiction of the era, there was a greater innocence to it than we have today, a sense of "anything is possible." Audiences wouldn't have ruled anything out because it was all unknown and new. And yet, since TV audiences weren't as SF-savvy as they are today, not as exposed to as many exotic worlds, their imagination of those alien possibilities often ran along the lines of variations on our own world. There were plenty of stories in the era, in comics as well as television, in which astronauts went to alien worlds and found that they were just like our world but with some odd twist. Land of the Giants is an obvious example -- just like Earth except everything was 12 times bigger. And no attempt was ever made to explain the duplication. It was just an accepted storytelling conceit. It's a conceit we've outgrown, so we need to try to concoct more rational explanations for the fantasy. But a television writer in the '60s wouldn't have felt the same obligation to explain it.

 

[Chrisisall]

The odds of the US Constitution, for example, evolving EXACTLY THE SAME on two completely alien worlds, are so remote as to be effectively impossible.

Ummm, have you even read the ten thousand plus pages of Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Development?

I thought not.

 

[Shatmandu]

I don't think adding the scene, if it was even filmed, would make all that much difference. As long as you leave "E Pleb Neesta" in there, it'll still seem like corny tripe.

Joe, suddenly not hungry