Can Jack really not kill himself?

[Ryan8bit]

In Jack's idea that he is fated to do something, he believes that he can't kill himself. But is it possible that he could indeed kill himself, and that the dynamite didn't go off just because Richard was there?

Richard says to Jacob that he wants to live forever and Jacob grants this wish. Richard must find out somehow that he can't kill himself. Why is he led to believe that someone else can kill him if he asked to live forever?

Further, if Richard truly is immortal, then how can Jacob give the gift of immortality while not being immortal himself?

 

[Checkmate]

Jacob's death kind of proves it for us. Someone else killed him, and he died. But we know that he's been living since at least the 1800s (with spoilers dictating a significantly longer lifespan).

Jack's theory did, in fact, come out of left field. But despite being a brilliant doctor he's kind of a dunce. I have no idea why he felt he was immortal, but the test seemed to line up with what Richard said. And since both Smokey and Dogen knew, or at least suspected, how to kill someone who was immortal, there's a good chance Richard learned of it the same way they did. However that was.

 

[coolghoul]

Yeah - but winning a game of Russian Roulette cos the gun jams doesn't make you an immortal either. It would be funny if we later came to know just how close to death Ricardo and Jack were!



I bet Jack would be upset at Jacob and of course Hurley and promptly start breaking things.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

In Jack's idea that he is fated to do something, he believes that he can't kill himself. But is it possible that he could indeed kill himself, and that the dynamite didn't go off just because Richard was there?

I don't suppose there's any point in arguing that the dynamite simply was a dud and wouldn't have gone off either way, is there?

Richard says to Jacob that he wants to live forever and Jacob grants this wish. Richard must find out somehow that he can't kill himself. Why is he led to believe that someone else can kill him if he asked to live forever?

He was probably desperate. It's not like he knew Jacob's rules for immortality. He probably originally thought it meant he wasn't going to age and die. Maybe he already tried killing himself and failed.

Further, if Richard truly is immortal, then how can Jacob give the gift of immortality while not being immortal himself?

I don't really see a contradiction there. He gives a gift. He can't give it to himself.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I don't suppose there's any point in arguing that the dynamite simply was a dud and wouldn't have gone off either way, is there?

Maybe he already tried killing himself and failed.

I'm guessing so.

I don't really see a contradiction there. He gives a gift. He can't give it to himself.

Why not?

I just feel like most gifts that one can give, one should be able to get said gift for their own use. You'd have to wonder how someone could give a gift that is beyond them.

 

[Checkmate]

Did I miss something?

Where did you get the notion that Jacob wasn't as immortal as Richard was? Everything kind of, you know, screams otherwise. Considering that he was the one who gave Richard his immortality to begin with, has allegedly been on the island far longer than that, and was still alive up until a short time ago where he only died at the hands of someone else... which is exactly the method Richard described for his only means of death.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't suppose there's any point in arguing that the dynamite simply was a dud and wouldn't have gone off either way, is there?

Maybe he already tried killing himself and failed.

I'm guessing so.

I don't really see a contradiction there. He gives a gift. He can't give it to himself.

Why not?

I just feel like most gifts that one can give, one should be able to get said gift for their own use. You'd have to wonder how someone could give a gift that is beyond them.

I suppose that depends on the nature of his power.

Then again, to echo checkmate, there's a difference between others not being able to kill him and him being fated to not die right there because there is work to be done.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Jack tried to kill himself back on the mainland when he was in his beard and pills phase, and was "stopped" by a sudden car accident. Michael also couldn't kill himself. It's established already.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Did I miss something?

Where did you get the notion that Jacob wasn't as immortal as Richard was? Everything kind of, you know, screams otherwise. Considering that he was the one who gave Richard his immortality to begin with, has allegedly been on the island far longer than that, and was still alive up until a short time ago where he only died at the hands of someone else... which is exactly the method Richard described for his only means of death.

Yeah, you missed something. The speculation was based on the fact that Jacob gave Richard exactly what he asked for:

"I never want to die. I want to live forever."

If Jacob truly granted this wish, then it would mean Richard was now immortal, and probably by fate. If not, then it's kind of a strange workaround to the wish when what it really means is ageless and unable to commit suicide.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Not until the island is done with him. Just like Michael was told.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The question, though, was it the island that needed Michael or Jacob? Jacob seems to be the one crafting destinies. But he'd have a hard time doing that for Jack right now.

 

[Legolas]

Have we established who Christian is working for, smokey, jacob or the mysterious third entity? Because wasnt christian the one that appeared to Michael and released him from his can't-die sydrome? if so that seems to be proof definitive that christian is working for jacob, no?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

We haven't established anything. The thought was that he actually was the Man in Black, since he had Locke take over for him with Claire. At the same time, it's possible there's actually Christian and then there's the Man in Black pretending to be Christian. I'm thinking that's a wait and see situation.

 

[Hober Mallow]

We haven't established anything. The thought was that he actually was the Man in Black, since he had Locke take over for him with Claire.

Well, not only that. He also told John to turn the wheel, got pissed at John when he didn't and made him do it again to go off the island and told him he was going to sacrifice himself. Then, after the Ajira flight lands on the Hydra, Christian appears to Sun and Frank, tells them, "Hold on a second, wait right here and good ol' John Locke is gona tell you what to do next! Hang on!" Christian then disappears from the series forever (up to this point) and Flocke amazingly appears on the beach with the Ajira folks only moments later.

 

[label]

Have we established who Christian is working for, smokey, jacob or the mysterious third entity? Because wasnt christian the one that appeared to Michael and released him from his can't-die sydrome?

From my perspective I think it's pretty clear that Christian is just like Sayid and Claire.......claimed by the MIB for his own purposes. They were all dead (I've always believed Claire died in the explosion), brought back to life by the MIB and serve his interests now. This is supported by many things that have occurred on the show, but the single biggest thing that supports this is that it was Christian that sent Locke off the island and told him he needed to die which is exactly what the MIB needed to find his loophole.

Edit: Also, I don't believe Jack can kill himself. He tried in LA, didn't succeed. Just like Michael and Richard, he won't die until the island releases him.

 

[Jenee]

Christian also led Jack through the jungle and nearly killed him by leading him off a cliff. He also told the dog to go wake up Jack. Told Jack he needed to go back to the island. And even, lovingly looked up and held Aaron.

So, aside from leading Jack off a cliff, it doesn't sound like an evil being who wants everyone including himself off the island, is controlling him.

 

[Starbreaker]

Jack has survived two plane crashes, a nuclear bomb, dynamite, a ruptured appendix on an island, and a near suicide attempt. I think he's gonna live forever.

Everyone has mentioned Michael... but anyone else remember when Jack pointed a gun in Locke's face and pulled the trigger and nothing happened?

 

[label]

So, aside from leading Jack off a cliff, it doesn't sound like an evil being who wants everyone including himself off the island, is controlling him.

That he has moments where acts kind or compassionate fits perfectly with how we've seen the MIB act. One moment the MIB is kind, sincere, truthful and helping Kate understand what Claire went through and helping Claire understand what Kate did and why. He comforts the children and tells them he'll protect them. Most of the time - like Christian - he appears to be a nice guy who's on the up and up.

However, we also know he regularly and brutally murders people so we know there's more to him than just the apparent nice guy we see from the MIB.

Finally, and most important, it was Christian who encouraged Locke to die which is exactly what the MIB needed.

 

[Jenee]

Finally, and most important, it was Christian who encouraged Locke to die which is exactly what the MIB needed.

But, that was only after Ben moved the island first.

 

[RoJoHen]

Jack has survived two plane crashes, a nuclear bomb, dynamite, a ruptured appendix on an island, and a near suicide attempt. I think he's gonna live forever.

Everyone has mentioned Michael... but anyone else remember when Jack pointed a gun in Locke's face and pulled the trigger and nothing happened?

I'm thinking that maybe Candidates are immortal until they are not candidates anymore.

As soon as they (for whatever reason) stop being candidates, their lives are inevitably forfeit.

I would really be curious to know at what point in the series did all the other characters stop being candidates. What have the remaining characters done or not done that has kept them on the list? Why can't certain people die?

And has Sayid been crossed off the list now that he's eeeevil?