Can a "Realistic" Space Battle be Fun?

[Deks]

The thing with Star Trek though is that technology of warp capable species enables them to move at extraordinary speeds weather they are on sub-light drive or not.

Ships would still be able to avoid some weapons fire, but mostly one that is targeted manually (Which leaves a margin for error) but hardly ever when a computer is in charge of targeting ... that is if the battles are fought at sub-light ... and even then, ships could theoretically evade incoming torpedoes through the use of their own warp drives if they are fast enough or even use point defense tactics (which were rarely implemented in Trek).

 

[FalTorPan]

Couldn't a starship with warp capabilities use those capabilities as a sort of defense system? Numerous times in TNG-and-beyond series, there have been references to creating warp bubbles, extending warp fields, etc. What if a starship could create a localized warp field -- even a "low-power" version -- in a region of space between the ship and incoming energy beam or torpedo? Couldn't this field disrupt the weapon -- perhaps reducing its destructive potential, altering its trajectory, and/or "tearing" the weapon apart?

 

[Deks]

Indeed.
Or they could implement various combinations of dampening fields with everything else (if the weapons were modified so they operate under dampening field conditions).

The thing is that star ships are capable of this and more ... the writers on the other hand conveniently forgot the technological solutions the heroes used a week or two ago and dumbed down the characters in order for the drama to enhance.

 

[sunnyside]

Yeah they're kinda bad about reusing the cool techniques/gear they'd found. But I'd say that punching through standard distortion/navigational deflecters etc is why photon torpedos look like they do (and presumably why they can't carry much more impressive payloads ship to ship, they need the rest of the room for the delevery stuff).

And yes I think there it would be cool to do a little more at range.

That said at least weapons like phasers could have troubles connecting at range. While a computer may be able to target the shot perfectly there is also a computer piloting the other ship. At 300,000km type ranges if you can alter your speed or direction even a little it could cause a miss, especially when you're moving at a quarter the speed of light.

For example lets say you're fireing your phasers at half max range (150,000 meters) at a ship moving at standard full impulse (.25c) and your computer fires a perfectly lead shot. However either due to detecting your shot or just to do general manuvering the other ship points it's nose up by just 1 degree when your shot is halfway there. The result? You miss by 1300 meters.

 

[Balthier the Great]

One thing I'm thinking that might make battles more interesting is to limit what a ship can actually do while it's moving. I would imagine that any engine that puts out enough energy to make a ship move FTL would put out a lot of EM interference.

That would make it difficult to impossible for a ship to target anything while it's moving. So you literally couldn't fight the ST SW B5 way. Depending on the type of ship, you could either bring the ship to a stop and try to find the other ship (something like a submarine with only a parascope), or you could treat them like aircraft carriers and have the main ship do nothing more than launch a bunch of fighters.

Either strategy could work -- it's possible to sneak up on a ship that's traveling at a constant rate of speed (remember, he can't scan and travel FTL at the same time), and if the sneaky sub style attack was discovered, the fighters would make mincemeat of him.

If done right, the whole thing should come down to strategy, not necessarily just having the best equipment. You'd have to predict the other guy's move and have a countermove ready. It would be a battle of wits between two capable fighters.

I think the spacesuits would be a good idea. Firstly, I don't expect either side to have any shielding technology. And secondly, I don't see why it would mean two uniforms -- it should be possible to have a general duty uniform that could be quickly turned into a spacesuit.

 

[sunnyside]

Um in star Trek they don't fight at FTL speeds if they can help it. Only doing so rarely.

Typically they're engaged at .25C or lower. Much lower typically.

Possibly for the reasons you mentioned. Also possibly due to availible power.

If they wanted to make things more submarineish probably the quickest way would be to have ships fighting while cloaked. That would get the "where are they" bit of sub warefare into play. The other bit could be some limit on going to warp. Enough time to let a photon torpedo fired at range to get there first. Currently if you lobbed a torpedo so that it took 12 seconds to impact, (~3,000,000 m), a typical high drama sub combat time, there isn't much excuse for not jumping to warp or doing something about them.

 

[Newtype_A]

BalthierTheGreat said:
One thing I'm thinking that might make battles more interesting is to limit what a ship can actually do while it's moving. I would imagine that any engine that puts out enough energy to make a ship move FTL would put out a lot of EM interference/

I like this idea, but let me offer something else for consideration: the operating principles of trek sensors need to be established in some concrete terms first. This would both avoid the plot device of "I know the sensors can USUALLY pinpoint the Captain's exact location within a half dozen meters just by scanning for his life signs; this time, they can't. So shut up."

I'd propose that, for realism, Trek sensors should be described as the evolutionary descendents of modern sensors. They're usually referred to as "multi-spectral" or something to that effect, so let's just make it concrete: Starfleet sensors are a combination of optics (seeing every spectrum from infrared through ultraviolet) radar (from microwave on down) and extremely high energy (x-ray, gamma ray, etc). This means that all of the ship's high resolution sensors have very short range, only capable of tracking a stationary vessel or space station at a range of, say, five hundred thousand kilometers. That would be the EXTREME range of automatic detection, often mentioned in dialog. Since these types of sensors key on EM signals, they only operate at the speed of light, which is where things like the Picard Manuever come into play (outrun your own reflection so the enemy's sensors suddenly show there are two of you).

The alternative is gravitic sensors, which measure space energy density. These sensors are not limited by the speed of light, so they can detect anything distances of several light years, instantaneously. But measuring space density is about the ONLY thing they can do; they can detect a massive object (planet or moon or star or black hole) and they can detect a starship with a high-level warp field, but little else.

With these two sensor systems, the ship would be almost blind when traveling at FTL speeds; objects behind or alongside would be barely visible, and the faster the ship goes, the less it can see except for things directly in front of it. Its gravitic sensors can resolve warp-driven space craft and planets and asteroids (so it can avoid them) but that's it. In such a case, it would be possible for one ship to actually sneak up behind another ship traveling at warp and just hang there in its blind spot; since the first vessel is traveling faster than light, it'll never see the second vessel except by detecting the distortion from its subspace field, and if the tailing ship is small enough, it never will. Then the ship being tailed may have to pull a crazy ivan to clear his baffles, and then the fight's on...

BalthierTheGreat said:
If done right, the whole thing should come down to strategy, not necessarily just having the best equipment. You'd have to predict the other guy's move and have a countermove ready. It would be a battle of wits between two capable fighters.

That's the idea. Build concrete and logical limitations into the equipment, then it's up to the main character to exploit those limitations. If you know, for example, the Klingon battle cruiser strafing your ship at warp 7 is going to loose sight of you just as it passes, you can exploit its moment of blindness, swing your ship around so that you're not where he expects you to be when he comes around to reacquire. If you guess his move correctly, you'll wind up in firing position before he can take evasive action.

BalthierTheGreat said:
I think the spacesuits would be a good idea. Firstly, I don't expect either side to have any shielding technology. And secondly, I don't see why it would mean two uniforms -- it should be possible to have a general duty uniform that could be quickly turned into a spacesuit.

How about a mechanical counterpressure suit? Doesn't even need to be pressurized, all you'd have to do is snap on a helmet and a pair of gloves.