Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread

[Oden]

Posted by Top41:

Posted by Oden:
just stop taking this soooooooo seriously you might just not die prematurly bye a heart attack.

Let's keep comments like this out of this thread. That doesn't help anyone.

I would disagree. If one would have the ability to distance oneself just a little bit from ones opinions, no one would have to go off in random "posting-attacks". Altough I cant see the reason why anyone would take offense by a "meanie" post, I DO know that some do. So the solution would be to distance ones feelings for the subject at hand, so that you dont get all worked up, and start escalating the problem.

or in other words:
just stop taking this soooooooo seriously you might just not die prematurly bye a heart attack.

 

[Blah]

Posted by Jenna:

Posted by Temis the Vorta:
Might I suggest a compromise: support Archer/Trip!

We can all get along, yes we can.

I tried suggesting that once, and I know a few others did as well. Especially those of us who frequent the House of Tucker. But, it got shot down in some rather nasty ways. It's a ship like any other... valid like any other....

Yeah I've seen that suggested before..it did get shot down in a nasty way and in the process one of the other ships took a pot shot as well Ahh sometimes ya just gotta laugh

I'm cool with keeping the shipping stuff in just the shipper threads. Although I'm not sure if that would last very long.

 

[Jenna]

Posted by Dorian Thompson:

Might I suggest a compromise: support Archer/Trip!

Works for me. However, I've had a few posters who like Archer (like I don't) get upset with me with I teasingly suggested it. I'm not kidding. Yes, it can get nasty.

That's what I was talking about. If that's not bad enough, there are people who aren't just teasing about an Archer/Trip ship. They really like them as a couple, and to have the ship shot down and called gross and disgusting is going WAY over the line. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but it would nice if the responses were less venomous.

 

[Jenna]

Posted by Blah:
I'm cool with keeping the shipping stuff in just the shipper threads. Although I'm not sure if that would last very long.

I'd like to keep it in the ship threads as well. The reference I made to Home, however, would be an exception for me. The spoilers for that episode were very ship-centric, on both sides. The main T/T thread has a NO SPOILER policy, so the spoiler thread was the logical place to discuss the shippy spoiler developments.

 

[Jen]

Posted by jkladis:

Posted by Jen Raasch:
And we should all be welcomed in every thread, no matter what. This whole "kicking a person out because..." is just plain silly.

Something I agree and feel very strongly about.

Glad I'm not the only one!

But....it's a delicate balance. Some people don't even want a civilized debate to emerge in the middle of a 'ship-tribute (or rage) thread. It appears to defeat the purpose of what they're trying to accomplish. And I, for one, respect that.

There's always a 'but'.

Alright, I'm going to bring up a very old argument, but one that hits close to home in this instance.

It seems like the Shippers don't really want debate (civilized, of course) in their respective threads. That's cool. I suppose. But one of the main reason the Official Reed Rager Threads were officially closed down were because there wasn't any debate in them at all (according to the Mods at the time). They were simply 'gushing' (god, I really do hate that word) about a particular character.

This is the same situation, except it revolves around two characters. Now the Mods in Charge are saying that debate is to be discouraged, not encouraged. Debating is the real substance of a thread. And now that's a no-no.

Like I said, it's cool, but utterly confusing. Why wouldn't they want to debate the merits between the two ships? The Ragers and the Tuckerites did that many years ago, and many people 'converted' from one to another. To coin a phrase from my favorite Vulcan, "It's only logical."

At the same time, this BBS is generally not supposed to endorse the act of grouping together and control a thread, just becasuse.

Because I feel like I've gone stupid today, let me try to understand. The BBS does not endorse grouping together threads, like 'shipper threads. They don't want certain cliques, if I'm understanding correctly. Am I?

If that's the case, then why are seperate 'shipper threads allowed?

If that's not the case, please, please ignore this comment.

We don't expel criticism from the more general Enterprise threads, so common sense should also apply here. And it's not like we would ignore trolls. That's a judgment call, but the same common sense should and would exist.

Common sense is a very important thing, so why can't we all use common sense in this instance? Ignore the 'shipper thread you don't like, or post rational, non-trollish respones that might get the other side to think, which would cause more active participation beyond the "Oh, they are so CUTE together!" posts?

Does any of this make sense? Because I'm re-reading it and I'm not sure if I understand my own post.

 

[Top41]

Posted by Jen Raasch:
This is the same situation, except it revolves around two characters. Now the Mods in Charge are saying that debate is to be discouraged, not encouraged. Debating is the real substance of a thread. And now that's a no-no.

I wouldn't say that at all, though. The question is whether or not to have debate or not, but what exactly is being debated/discussed. The T/T's want to discuss the chemistry in "Damage" and the A/T's want to discuss the possible future "Twilight" showed--neither side seems to want to debate the same old "Should T'Pol be with Trip or Archer?" in each and every thread. At least, that's my take on it.

 

[Blah]

Posted by Top41:

Posted by Jen Raasch:
This is the same situation, except it revolves around two characters. Now the Mods in Charge are saying that debate is to be discouraged, not encouraged. Debating is the real substance of a thread. And now that's a no-no.

I wouldn't say that at all, though. The question is whether or not to have debate or not, but what exactly is being debated/discussed. The T/T's want to discuss the chemistry in "Damage" and the A/T's want to discuss the possible future "Twilight" showed--neither side seems to want to debate the same old "Should T'Pol be with Trip or Archer?" in each and every thread. At least, that's my take on it.

I agree. I think most don't want to debate who T'Pol should be with. It's like chasing your tail

Plus I'm sure both sides don't want to have to "defend" their ship in their shipping thread.

 

[Jen]

Posted by Top41:

Posted by Jen Raasch:
This is the same situation, except it revolves around two characters. Now the Mods in Charge are saying that debate is to be discouraged, not encouraged. Debating is the real substance of a thread. And now that's a no-no.

I wouldn't say that at all, though. The question is whether or not to have debate or not, but what exactly is being debated/discussed. The T/T's want to discuss the chemistry in "Damage" and the A/T's want to discuss the possible future "Twilight" showed--neither side seems to want to debate the same old "Should T'Pol be with Trip or Archer?" in each and every thread. At least, that's my take on it.

I guess I'm just getting old, because from what I read above, it's saying that any debate of any kind is a no-no.

Either that or I've really gone stupid!

I shall exit this thread now for people who actually know what the hell they're talking about!

Ta, and the best of luck to y'all!

 

[jkladis]

Posted by Jen Raasch:
Because I feel like I've gone stupid today, let me try to understand. The BBS does not endorse grouping together threads, like 'shipper threads. They don't want certain cliques, if I'm understanding correctly. Am I?

If that's the case, then why are seperate 'shipper threads allowed?

If that's not the case, please, please ignore this comment.

I stated that poorly. It's the latter portion about prohibiting one group from participating in the thread of another that I've discouraged. I don't like to see people hijacking threads, but running a "Members Only" can lead to frustration. That's why I used my out-clause with "delicate balance" . We don't have sub-forums, so this is what we have to work with.

We don't expel criticism from the more general Enterprise threads, so common sense should also apply here. And it's not like we would ignore trolls. That's a judgment call, but the same common sense should and would exist.

Common sense is a very important thing, so why can't we all use common sense in this instance? Ignore the 'shipper thread you don't like, or post rational, non-trollish respones that might get the other side to think, which would cause more active participation beyond the "Oh, they are so CUTE together!" posts?

Does any of this make sense? Because I'm re-reading it and I'm not sure if I understand my own post.

It makes perfect sense on paper, but the human factor ultimately controls our fates. It's a foreign matter to me, because this stuff never gets under my skin. Thus, this mediation thread.

 

[Ulva]

Posted by jkladis:
It makes perfect sense on paper, but the human factor ultimately controls our fates. It's a foreign matter to me, because this stuff never gets under my skin. Thus, this mediation thread.

That is so true. We are, after all, highly irrational and illogical Humans.

BTW, I think this thread was a good idea...

 

[RedFenix]

I have a solution that works just fine and dandy for me. I stick to my own thread of preference and stay out of the other, and that includes the "favorite actor" threads because unfortunately 'ship wars tend to bleed into there, too. And I stay the hell away from any other threads that open up that might instigate angry/harsh feelings on either side. Which tends to be a problem now, because over 50% of the threads on this board do that.

But to tell you the truth, even with all that, this place really is a shithole lately. I hate it. Posting in the ENT forum tends to be more of a chore now and I think all of the 'shipper bickering has driven away the intelligent conversation that used to to take place here long ago (in a galaxy far, far away). There is rarely a thread that pops up now that doesn't dissolve into bickering.

Pointing fingers and trying to place the blame isn't solving anything. BOTH SIDES DO IT, and BOTH SIDES DO IT A LOT. Let's all just cut the crap. IMO doing away with the 'shipper conversation is a fine idea because I don't think it's going to stop any other way. Tearing screaming children apart and placing them in seperate rooms only works if those children are confined to their seperate rooms, unfortunately.

And...I will say this. I think the "seperate rooms" have lost their usefulness. Instead of being used to discuss what one likes, they're often used as a breeding ground to have a bash-fest at the other side, because the other side is forbidden to post within their thread and as many cheap shots as possible can be taken, further riling up the anger.

The "seperate threads" have been going on for SO DAMN BLOODY LONG that both sides have run out of constructive things to talk about!! Instead the same things are re-hashed (even though it's old and people are tired of reading them again and again), or the thread dissolves into chat-room-type spamming during which it's become like a ridiculous horse race now to see which side can post more than the other. When you run out of constructive things to talk about (let's face it, we both have), the bashing begins.

I wouldn't want to see these shut down permanently. When the new season starts, obviously there will be new material to chew on. But during the summer, when everyone's stuck with rerun fever, boredom, et al, there's nothing new to discuss. Maybe banning 'shipper talk for another month and a half isn't such a bad idea. We each have our own respective message boards away from this place to talk 'shippy talk, so it's not like there's a lack of resources or anything. People will cool down and those who don't have anything to contribute to Star Trek Enterprise discussion besides stating again and again who they want to sleep with who can find some other place to hang out. Personally I miss the people who had genuine opinions on this board...we 'shippers seem to have scared them all away.

We look ridiculous. And I'm embarrassed to admit that I've been a part of it.

 

[jkladis]

Posted by Ulva:

BTW, I think this thread was a good idea...

And I take all the credit for it.

Well, that's a total lie. But don't let that change your opinion of the thread.

 

[LLAP2U]

Posted by RedFenix: Personally I miss the people who had genuine opinions on this board...we 'shippers seem to have scared them all away.

Actually, they are still here on the boards... The problem is that when they give their opinion about something if it merely grazes against someone's 'ship' preference the same over zealous shippers jump on their opinion and try to tear them down. You are not going to continue to comment if you feel unwelcomed to be able to do so. So they respond to other subjects and avoid 'shipper' issues.

There have been times when I have stated my opinion about something like the whole Archer/Hoshi thing I am interested in, and I was a bit surprised that so many people jumped on me in backlash. Then there were attempts to insult me and they could not understand why it did not work. Because I feel that I have as much right to my opinion and view as they do. And that is the main thing that people seem to forget on the boards. If I was someone trying to post my opinion and I was not a TnT' or AnT' shipper I would be afraid to respond as well.

This whole thing is one of the reasons I posted a Malcolm thread... to get away from the 'shipper wars' and find something in the middle ground for a change......

 

[Evalyn]

Perhaps until the new season there could be threads that simply direct the relevant shippers to the other sites that are expressly designed for each of the 'ships. A degree of physical separation might make everyone happy, and open up the board for other discussions.

Plus if a thread gets hijacked by irrelevant shippiness, the mods could shut it down and restart it. Obviously discussions/spoiler threads for certain episodes would remain a breeding ground for shipping, and that is quite appropriate.

Sniping and trolling should always be dealt with just as I do with my children -- one strike, you're warned, two strikes, you're in your room or grounded for a week, depending on the severity. Mods, use your powers. It's a thankless enough job, you might as well feel you can exercise them without having to justify yourselves excessively.

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

This entire 'shipper war thing is really beyond silly. As a relative newcomer (don't let my rank fool you) I was completely flabbergasted that such a thing even existed. All right, I know what 'ship I prefer but I have never ventured into "the other" thread.

However, what has pissed me off is that from time to time I've gotten some angry response when I've been to more general ENT threads. For example, if I have expressed disdain over an episode like ANIS or the behaviour of Archer, rest assure that some of the Archerites/ATers will respond and more often than not in a way that reeks more of 'shipping than of discussion the topic at hand.

I still would like to engage in serious discussions about, for instance,the merits of Captain Archer, without it turning into a non-productive 'shipper pissing contest.

So I suggest that we stick to our respective 'shipper threads and leave it there. And the only reason to begin 'shipper talk elsewhere should be in the spoiler threads where the progression of certain 'ships is intergral. But let's keep it civil everywhere. There's no need to discuss the other side in any threads.

Boy, if I ever told my RL friends about this they most certainly would be reinforced in their belief that Trek attracts the strangest people. I like being a bit odd, but this 'shipper warfare way beyond that.

 

[RedFenix]

Plus if a thread gets hijacked by irrelevant shippiness, the mods could shut it down and restart it. Obviously discussions/spoiler threads for certain episodes would remain a breeding ground for shipping, and that is quite appropriate.

I agree. The spoiler threads will undoubtedly have relevent 'shipper discussion, and outlawing it there would be difficult.

I know personally many people ('shippers and non 'shippers alike) who have stopped coming here because of the way this board monopolizes romantic relationships. The fact that I can simply look at the first page and see five threads at least that delve into Enterprise romantic relationships somehow, not just Archer/T'Pol and Trip/T'Pol, makes me feel sorry for people who don't give a damn about Trek and romance...because I have a feeling most don't.

 

[Jen]

Posted by RedFenix:
The fact that I can simply look at the first page and see five threads at least that delve into Enterprise romantic relationships somehow, not just Archer/T'Pol and Trip/T'Pol, makes me feel sorry for people who don't give a damn about Trek and romance...because I have a feeling most don't.

Yeah, most don't, but if people want to talk about Trek enough they'll either find the interesting threads or start their own.

Take me for example. I'm a firm Phlox/Porthos shipper. So the other threads hold NO interest in me what-so-ever. I've never entered a Trip/T'Pol thread or an Archer/T'Pol thread.

And if the 'spoiler' threads delve into the relationships, I ignore those particular posts and concentrate on the ones that interest me.

Heh...I just think more people should be like me!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Didn't you contribute to this being a "shithole" by putting the catfish honkytonk line in your signature just last night, RedFenix? Don't tell me you didn't add that just to needle certain people. Yes, we all do it. And we can all stop. Myself included.

 

[RedFenix]

Posted by Dorian Thompson:
Didn't you contribute to this being a "shithole" by putting the catfish honkytonk line in your signature just last night, RedFenix? Don't tell me you didn't add that just to needle certain people. Yes, we all do it. And we can all stop. Myself included.

And didn't I just say that I was a contributor as well? Like I said, Dorian, it only stops when other people stop pointing fingers at each other. Come on. This is a mediation thread and we're both better than this.

 

[The Evil Dead]

This is sort of an ironic direction for a mediation thread to take.